Annual Operating Costs

Roy Page wrote:
Jack,

Seems the Arrow is doing a good job for you ?
Yep, we're well pleased with our plane. I've been flying it a ton and
have nearly 100 hours on it since we brought it home in April.

I am interested to know how per flying hour do you put aside for engine and
propeller overhaul ?
Engine overhaul/prop is funded at $20/hr.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Robert M. Gary wrote:
" Just curious since I figure my costs on
the Arrow are running right at 1/2 of what a rental Arrow goes for. "

Didn't you just buy this plane though.
Yep, bought it in April

I would be really surprised if
the cost of ownership ends up being less than rental.
Actually, I won't be surprised. It won't be 1/2 of the going rental
rate at the end of a year's worth of ownership but I think it will be
less than rental. Current Arrow rental rate at Executive Flyers is
$134/hr wet which must have come down a bit lately as it used to be
somewhere North of $140/hr. My costs have run right at $70/hr. This
includes all monthly fixed costs and all variable per-hour costs. Also
includes reserves for engine and annual inspection.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Current Arrow rental rate at Executive Flyers is
$134/hr wet which must have come down a bit lately as it used to be
somewhere North of $140/hr.

My bad, Executive Flyers Arrow rental is $141/hr wet.

http://www.execflyers.com/costs.php


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

On 9/5/2005 22:11, Jack Allison wrote:

Current Arrow rental rate at Executive Flyers is
$134/hr wet which must have come down a bit lately as it used to be
somewhere North of $140/hr.

My bad, Executive Flyers Arrow rental is $141/hr wet.

http://www.execflyers.com/costs.php



That's okay. The Arrow at Sky Walk is advertised at $130, but they
also charge a fuel surcharge (something like $2 to $5 per hour,
depending on the fuel costs).

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
" Just curious since I figure my costs on
the Arrow are running right at 1/2 of what a rental Arrow goes for. "

Didn't you just buy this plane though.
Yep, bought it in April

I would be really surprised if
the cost of ownership ends up being less than rental.
Actually, I won't be surprised. It won't be 1/2 of the going rental rate
at the end of a year's worth of ownership but I think it will be less than
rental. Current Arrow rental rate at Executive Flyers is $134/hr wet
which must have come down a bit lately as it used to be somewhere North of
$140/hr. My costs have run right at $70/hr. This includes all monthly
fixed costs and all variable per-hour costs. Also includes reserves for
engine and annual inspection.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T



You will probably find that your long term costs are substantially higher
than your costs to date. Everything from tires to bearings to gyros to
windshields is wearing out and is unlikely to be free to replace.

Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
" Just curious since I figure my costs on
the Arrow are running right at 1/2 of what a rental Arrow goes for. "

Didn't you just buy this plane though.
Yep, bought it in April

I would be really surprised if
the cost of ownership ends up being less than rental.
Actually, I won't be surprised. It won't be 1/2 of the going rental rate
at the end of a year's worth of ownership but I think it will be less
than rental. Current Arrow rental rate at Executive Flyers is $134/hr
wet which must have come down a bit lately as it used to be somewhere
North of $140/hr. My costs have run right at $70/hr. This includes all
monthly fixed costs and all variable per-hour costs. Also includes
reserves for engine and annual inspection.



--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T



You will probably find that your long term costs are substantially higher
than your costs to date. Everything from tires to bearings to gyros to
windshields is wearing out and is unlikely to be free to replace.

Mike
MU-2



I would agree with Mike, that ownership costs per hour often calculate to be
higher when you look back over a longer period of ownership time.
Most folk reckon to spend 10% of the initial cost in getting the newly
acquired aircraft up to snuff.
In my own case, that figure was just about right, but it did include doing
work that was considered desirable rather than necessary.
Many of us are flying older equipment and there is a constant need to
replace parts that fail or are showing signs of age in their performance.

We own a 1977 Piper Archer, with 4000 hours TT.
With two pilots to share the fixed costs, we find that we could locally rent
a similar aircraft for less per hour.
Essentially, we accepted before buying that it would be more expensive to
own than to rent.
But we are flying OUR plane, and that is just such a good feeling :-)

Roy
N5804F

Ron Natalie has said for years that "if if flies, floats, or [fornicates] it
is far cheaper to rent."

However, in each instance, the "pride of ownership" overcomes the price
differential.

Jim [pick your f-word] Weir

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:34:32 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:

Jim,

Our FBO is now charging $3.90 per gallon for 100LL. I expect it to go
over $4.00 soon. :-(

I filled up yesterday. 40 gallons at $2.99 a gallon for 100 LL.

Two airports within 30 miles of that one are a tad over $4.00. I think
MBS is $4.17 for 100 LL and $4.11 for Jet A.
At 3BS it's $3.69 for 100 LL.

When I was flying around 130 plus hours a year my total cost including
all fixed plus annual and set aside for major was $79/hr. Currently
it's running around $120 to $130/hr.

The only surprise came from soft rigs which we later found would have
been covered by a warranty.

OTOH the annual prior to them selling it ran over $8,000 and it had
a new interior. After 1000 hours the interior could use a wee bit of
sprucing up. The engine is nearing TBO and still uses less than a
pint of oil in 25 hours. However, knowing at least a little about
engines, that is subject to change without notice.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com



Jon KRaus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Jim Burns wrote:

I just figured up the first year's annual operating costs on our Aztec.

Using an average fuel price of $2.75 per gallon, we flew, hangered
(partially heated), insured, and maintained it for $188 per Tach hour,
slightly less per Hobbs hour.

This does not include any upgrades or improvements. All maintenance is
owner assisted w/A&P sign off. An $11 per hour per engine charge was
included (AOPA's figure). Also included was our first year insurance cost
which was reduced $500 upon renewal this year.

Jim Burns

On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 13:48:39 GMT, Jon Kraus
wrote:

I do expect the fuel prices to come down but just don't know how much.
It seems like the market price for a barrel for oil is starting to come
down ( a little) but we are experiencing the "supply and demand" spike
due to Katrina. Mogas here in Indianapolis went up 70 cents last week!!

This past week Mogas has dropped about 30 to 40 cents per gallon here
in Central Michigan which puts it in the $2.90 range. I seriously
doubt it'll drop below $2.60 or $2.70. It'll have to stay in the
$3.50 range to make alternative fuels cost competitive.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
4443H @ TYQ

Jim Burns wrote:

I've got to give our FBO manager a lot of credit, he held the price to $2.97
until just last week, now it's $3.57. I looked up some of the prices from
last year, we had some local purchases as low as $2.11. If we fly as much
next year, the effect of the fuel prices will have a pretty big effect on
our per hour costs. At the current fuel price it's running around $210 per
tach hour with everything else remaining the same.
Jim

I've owned my Twin Comanche for five years now. Cost of ownership,
lately including hangar (a very big and very nice hangar with air
conditioned office), insurance, engine reserve, upgrades, and catching
up on all the maintenance deferred by the previous owners - but not
including cost of capital has been steadily creeping up from about
$100/hr (when it was tied down and fuel was $2/gal) to about $150/hr
(hangared and $3+/gal fuel). That does not include costs of capital,
or the cost of my time.

During that same period, the cost of the rental Duchess at my field
(which is not quite as roomy, much slower, and not as well equipped)
has gone from about $160 to over $200/hr. Flying 200 hours a year, I
am consistently doing better than renting.

Michael