Used Avionics

It was march of this year.
Maybe he just knew a good deal when he saw it.
If you take care of your plane, it will take care of you.

His comments were that he was glad to finally look at a plane that wasnt trashed
out and had good avionics.

Jeff


"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message ...
This is not always true, when I sold my old cherokee 180, I had put a new
garmin stack in, 430,x-ponder, audio panel and some other stuff, I got
back
90% of what I had into the plane, plus, it sold in 4 days.


It must have been a good market then because that is quite extraordinary
(unless you're dealing with someone who has more money than buying savvy).

http://www.planedata.com/aircraft%20...%20methods.htm

the KX155's are great radio's , it should be easy for you to sell the extra one
unless you keep it as a spare.

your getting a 1992 bonanza for 75k ?
thats one hell of a deal, I was looking around at them just a second ago and
found a 1993 for $200k, and some 1970's ones for 130-170k - if you get it for
75k its a plane you can make money back on by the looks of other F33A's.

I paid 85k for my 1978 Turbo Arrow III then an additional 20k for the new
avionics.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


"Tom S." wrote:

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

I plan to buy my first airplane and "trade-up" in about 3-4 years. I
expect my initial investment will be around $75K. At that price, it
does not seem to be worth putting in brand new avionics to the tune of
$12-$15K (thinking specifically about a Garmin 430/MX-20 combo, or a
GX-50/MX-20 combo). At the sametime, I really would like the
situational awareness benefits of such avionics. Is it practical to
consider buying used avionics? If so, where might I get used avionics
(web site pointers, phone numbers, or email addresses would be helpful
in addition to names of places).

Many avionics shops have used gear that they replaced. Finding _current_
equipment is going to be tougher.

This place has refurbished equipment: http://www.psavionics.com/

The F33A I'm buying has a basic panel (dual KX-155's, ADF, DME, Loran,
Xpder...) which is what I want. I figure to remove the 2nd KX-155 and the
Loran and replace it with a Garmin GNS-530 ($13,150 installed)
http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.co...il.asp?id=4448.

Also we'll replace the transponder and put in a Garmin GTX-327 and the Audio
Pnael with a PSEngineering audio panal (7000B) and intercom. Then it's a
TATurbo Whirlwind (Turbo Normalization) and an oxygen system.

All in all, it's looking to be about $78K, but I expect to have this plane
for at least five to seven years. It's also a 1992 model, so it's not like
having an antique bird that's over-equipped. Putting an elaborate panel into
an antique is just going to cost a lot of money that will never hold it's
value (or so I'm led to believe).

Like anything else, make the equipment suit the mission just as you'd build
a home that suits the neighborhood.

Jeff, I have "narrowed it down" to three planes:

1965 Piper Comanche PA-24-260
1978 Mooney "201" M20J
1977 Piper Arrow III

-Sami

Jeff wrote:

what kind of plane are you getting, if you dont mind...

jeff

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


I plan to buy my first airplane and "trade-up" in about 3-4 years. I
expect my initial investment will be around $75K. At that price, it
does not seem to be worth putting in brand new avionics to the tune of
$12-$15K (thinking specifically about a Garmin 430/MX-20 combo, or a
GX-50/MX-20 combo). At the sametime, I really would like the
situational awareness benefits of such avionics. Is it practical to
consider buying used avionics? If so, where might I get used avionics
(web site pointers, phone numbers, or email addresses would be helpful
in addition to names of places).

By the way, thanks for all the great help I have been getting on this
forum. It really helps me make some hard decisions about my first purchase.

-Sami

comanche 260 , awsome plane, I saw one take off with full fuel, 90 degree's
outside and 4 adults. There were like 7 of us out there watching to see if it
would get off the ground, me, the fuel guy and several others, it didnt have any
problems. Comanche's are like mooney's in that they are very clean airplanes.

Mooney, dont know much about them except the cockpit looks awful small.

Arrow III, you may be a bit disappointed, I have flown the Normally Aspirated
Arrow III and I own a Turbo Arrow III. The normally aspirated Arrow is not a fast
airplane. About 130-135 kts. The Turbo Arrow is a 150 kt airplane and gives much
better performance then the normally aspirated one. The T-arrow will maintain its
200 HP all the way up to 12,000 ft DA. I have taken off from an airport with a DA
of 8800 ft, gross weight, no problems. The engine in the T-Arrow is different then
the normal arrow, the T-Arrow has a Cont. 6 cylinder fuel injected turbo charged
engine and is actually rated at either 210 or 215 HP cant remember which. The same
engine is used in some other planes at 210 HP.
The insurance on it is not bad either, was alot cheaper then the comanche 400 I
was originally looking at. Also the T-Arrow seems to perform its best at
8000-13,000 ft. The POH says at 17,000 it will do 172 kts. At 14,000 a few days
ago, I had a TAS of 165 kts and a GS of 183 kts. (of course going the other way I
was only getting like 140kts). With the turbo, you can choose higher altitudes to
take advantage of winds.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:

Jeff, I have "narrowed it down" to three planes:

1965 Piper Comanche PA-24-260
1978 Mooney "201" M20J
1977 Piper Arrow III

-Sami

Jeff wrote:

what kind of plane are you getting, if you dont mind...

jeff

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


I plan to buy my first airplane and "trade-up" in about 3-4 years. I
expect my initial investment will be around $75K. At that price, it
does not seem to be worth putting in brand new avionics to the tune of
$12-$15K (thinking specifically about a Garmin 430/MX-20 combo, or a
GX-50/MX-20 combo). At the sametime, I really would like the
situational awareness benefits of such avionics. Is it practical to
consider buying used avionics? If so, where might I get used avionics
(web site pointers, phone numbers, or email addresses would be helpful
in addition to names of places).

By the way, thanks for all the great help I have been getting on this
forum. It really helps me make some hard decisions about my first purchase.

-Sami

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It was march of this year.
Maybe he just knew a good deal when he saw it.
If you take care of your plane, it will take care of you.

His comments were that he was glad to finally look at a plane that wasnt
trashed
out and had good avionics.


How soon after adding the upgrades did you sell it?

Adding avionics to a plane is like adding options to a used car; you seldom
get much back when you sell it. Like buying a car, it depreciates by about
2/3rds just driving it off the dealers lot.


"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
This is not always true, when I sold my old cherokee 180, I had put a
new
garmin stack in, 430,x-ponder, audio panel and some other stuff, I got
back
90% of what I had into the plane, plus, it sold in 4 days.


It must have been a good market then because that is quite extraordinary
(unless you're dealing with someone who has more money than buying
savvy).

http://www.planedata.com/aircraft%20...%20methods.htm

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
the KX155's are great radio's , it should be easy for you to sell the
extra one
unless you keep it as a spare.

your getting a 1992 bonanza for 75k ?

No, I'm getting it for about $220K and adding about $75K in upgrades.

As I mentioned, I expect to have this plane for five to seven years. Also,
it's pretty much in pristine condition. That's why I have no problem with
adding turbo-normalizing, builtin oxygen system, a 530 and a couple other
goodies.

thats one hell of a deal, I was looking around at them just a second ago
and
found a 1993 for $200k, and some 1970's ones for 130-170k - if you get it
for
75k its a plane you can make money back on by the looks of other F33A's.

I paid 85k for my 1978 Turbo Arrow III then an additional 20k for the new
avionics.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


"Tom S." wrote:

In article ,
O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
Jeff, I have "narrowed it down" to three planes:

1965 Piper Comanche PA-24-260
1978 Mooney "201" M20J
1977 Piper Arrow III

The Arrow doesn't get as much advantage from being complex as the other
two planes. If you want something in the Cherokee series the 235s are
faster and carry more without the added maintenance costs of retractable
gear. They're popular with flight schools, though.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

OK. I added one to my list today. What about a Cessna 210 Centurion.
They seem to have a good cruise speed, a good range, and good lift
capacity. What do you think about them? -Sami

Jeff wrote:

comanche 260 , awsome plane, I saw one take off with full fuel, 90 degree's
outside and 4 adults. There were like 7 of us out there watching to see if it
would get off the ground, me, the fuel guy and several others, it didnt have any
problems. Comanche's are like mooney's in that they are very clean airplanes.

Mooney, dont know much about them except the cockpit looks awful small.

Arrow III, you may be a bit disappointed, I have flown the Normally Aspirated
Arrow III and I own a Turbo Arrow III. The normally aspirated Arrow is not a fast
airplane. About 130-135 kts. The Turbo Arrow is a 150 kt airplane and gives much
better performance then the normally aspirated one. The T-arrow will maintain its
200 HP all the way up to 12,000 ft DA. I have taken off from an airport with a DA
of 8800 ft, gross weight, no problems. The engine in the T-Arrow is different then
the normal arrow, the T-Arrow has a Cont. 6 cylinder fuel injected turbo charged
engine and is actually rated at either 210 or 215 HP cant remember which. The same
engine is used in some other planes at 210 HP.
The insurance on it is not bad either, was alot cheaper then the comanche 400 I
was originally looking at. Also the T-Arrow seems to perform its best at
8000-13,000 ft. The POH says at 17,000 it will do 172 kts. At 14,000 a few days
ago, I had a TAS of 165 kts and a GS of 183 kts. (of course going the other way I
was only getting like 140kts). With the turbo, you can choose higher altitudes to
take advantage of winds.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


Jeff, I have "narrowed it down" to three planes:

1965 Piper Comanche PA-24-260
1978 Mooney "201" M20J
1977 Piper Arrow III

-Sami

Jeff wrote:


what kind of plane are you getting, if you dont mind...

jeff

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:



I plan to buy my first airplane and "trade-up" in about 3-4 years. I
expect my initial investment will be around $75K. At that price, it
does not seem to be worth putting in brand new avionics to the tune of
$12-$15K (thinking specifically about a Garmin 430/MX-20 combo, or a
GX-50/MX-20 combo). At the sametime, I really would like the
situational awareness benefits of such avionics. Is it practical to
consider buying used avionics? If so, where might I get used avionics
(web site pointers, phone numbers, or email addresses would be helpful
in addition to names of places).

By the way, thanks for all the great help I have been getting on this
forum. It really helps me make some hard decisions about my first purchase.

-Sami

A list that includes both the Arrow and the Centurion is a rather
odd list. The Centurion is very expensive to insure, and maybe
impossible unless you have 500 hrs and an instrument rating.
I'd have thought that a 182RG or a TR182 would be more in line
with the others in your list. I bought a TR182 a year ago and have
never regretted it. Figure around $130-140K for a decent one with OK
but elderly avionics.

John

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
OK. I added one to my list today. What about a Cessna 210 Centurion.
They seem to have a good cruise speed, a good range, and good lift
capacity. What do you think about them? -Sami

Jeff wrote:

comanche 260 , awsome plane, I saw one take off with full fuel, 90
degree's
outside and 4 adults. There were like 7 of us out there watching to see
if it
would get off the ground, me, the fuel guy and several others, it didnt
have any
problems. Comanche's are like mooney's in that they are very clean
airplanes.

Mooney, dont know much about them except the cockpit looks awful small.

Arrow III, you may be a bit disappointed, I have flown the Normally
Aspirated
Arrow III and I own a Turbo Arrow III. The normally aspirated Arrow is
not a fast
airplane. About 130-135 kts. The Turbo Arrow is a 150 kt airplane and
gives much
better performance then the normally aspirated one. The T-arrow will
maintain its
200 HP all the way up to 12,000 ft DA. I have taken off from an airport
with a DA
of 8800 ft, gross weight, no problems. The engine in the T-Arrow is
different then
the normal arrow, the T-Arrow has a Cont. 6 cylinder fuel injected turbo
charged
engine and is actually rated at either 210 or 215 HP cant remember
which. The same
engine is used in some other planes at 210 HP.
The insurance on it is not bad either, was alot cheaper then the
comanche 400 I
was originally looking at. Also the T-Arrow seems to perform its best at
8000-13,000 ft. The POH says at 17,000 it will do 172 kts. At 14,000 a
few days
ago, I had a TAS of 165 kts and a GS of 183 kts. (of course going the
other way I
was only getting like 140kts). With the turbo, you can choose higher
altitudes to
take advantage of winds.

Jeff
http://www.turboarrow3.com


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:


Jeff, I have "narrowed it down" to three planes:

1965 Piper Comanche PA-24-260
1978 Mooney "201" M20J
1977 Piper Arrow III

-Sami

Jeff wrote:


what kind of plane are you getting, if you dont mind...

jeff

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote:



I plan to buy my first airplane and "trade-up" in about 3-4 years. I
expect my initial investment will be around $75K. At that price, it
does not seem to be worth putting in brand new avionics to the tune of
$12-$15K (thinking specifically about a Garmin 430/MX-20 combo, or a
GX-50/MX-20 combo). At the sametime, I really would like the
situational awareness benefits of such avionics. Is it practical to
consider buying used avionics? If so, where might I get used avionics
(web site pointers, phone numbers, or email addresses would be helpful
in addition to names of places).

By the way, thanks for all the great help I have been getting on this
forum. It really helps me make some hard decisions about my first
purchase.

-Sami

I sold it about 8 months after I added the options.

See the thing was, the guy had been looking for a decent plane all over,
everyone he said he looked at was ragged out, rusted out or something.
He Said he was tired of looking and since my plane wasnt not ragged out, rusted
out and had good avionics he took it. A CFI I know who was building time ferried
it to his airport for him. The guy who bought it was a pilot for an airline. I
picked him up at the vegas airport when he flew in took him to see the plane
then had to hurry him back for his return flight.
You may be surprised at some of the planes being sold and prices people ask for
them. I looked at alot of planes before settling on the turbo arrow I got.

"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
It was march of this year.
Maybe he just knew a good deal when he saw it.
If you take care of your plane, it will take care of you.

His comments were that he was glad to finally look at a plane that wasnt
trashed
out and had good avionics.


How soon after adding the upgrades did you sell it?

Adding avionics to a plane is like adding options to a used car; you seldom
get much back when you sell it. Like buying a car, it depreciates by about
2/3rds just driving it off the dealers lot.

"Tom S." wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
This is not always true, when I sold my old cherokee 180, I had put a
new
garmin stack in, 430,x-ponder, audio panel and some other stuff, I got
back
90% of what I had into the plane, plus, it sold in 4 days.


It must have been a good market then because that is quite extraordinary
(unless you're dealing with someone who has more money than buying
savvy).

http://www.planedata.com/aircraft%20...%20methods.htm