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#11
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Wing walk ply question.
"Mustardbuilder" wrote Dunno, that's what I was asking. I've laminated two pieces of ply together before, just was wondering if it was practical or advisable to do it curved. I would be very surprised if your one ply of 1/4" ply would not conform to the curve you need. Astonished, even! g Don't forget that the curve is part of what gives that thin of a piece of plywood the ability to carry your weight. Is there any other structure to help out? Extra stringers, or anything? I would think there should be no more than 6" to a stronger structure as you measure parallel to the grain of the ply face, and perhaps 9 or 10 inches between supports as measured across the grain. Are those types of numbers close to what all of you other wooden homebuilders have found in your plans? I am going with these types of numbers based upon my knowledge of being a woodworker. I am curious if that is what others have found. -- Jim in NC |
#12
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Wing walk ply question.
wrote My son and I finished a small boat last year, using 1/4" Chilean Pine plywood, and we put some impressive curves in it. See this picture of an identical boat: http://www.glen-l.com/designs/outboard/dsn-sqtd.html Nice boat! -- Jim in NC |
#14
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Wing walk ply question.
Mustardbuilder wrote: "Morgans" wrote in news:cZIrh.1221$cZ1.187 @newsfe04.lga: "Mustardbuilder" wrote Well, what I was actually asking is if I could laminate the two pieces to take the curve in the wing. I realise this is basic stuff for a lot of you guyus, but I've never bent realatively thick ply before and I don't want to make a mess out of the rest of the wing trying.. Reread what I said. That is how to laminate two, without a mold. One should work, though, no problem Dunno, that's what I was asking. I've laminated two pieces of ply together before, just was wondering if it was practical or advisable to do it curved. Laminating a curved piece is, if anything, better than laminating a flat piece, and also better than using a single piece. If you laminate it on the curve before the glue sets the laminated plywood will be pre-stressed to the desired curve. You don't need a mold, you can attach one piece, let it set, then glue the second piece over it. Regarding the veneers, the laminated piece should be symetrical. If the pieces have an A and a B face, they should be laminated ABBA or BAAB, not ABAB or BABA. The grain on the new front and back face should be parallel. I'd put the A faces out, ABBA. But I think aircraft and marine plywood is supposed to have A-grade veneers front and back, right? -- FF |
#15
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Wing walk ply question.
"Morgans" wrote in
: "Mustardbuilder" wrote Dunno, that's what I was asking. I've laminated two pieces of ply together before, just was wondering if it was practical or advisable to do it curved. I would be very surprised if your one ply of 1/4" ply would not conform to the curve you need. Astonished, even! g Don't forget that the curve is part of what gives that thin of a piece of plywood the ability to carry your weight. Is there any other structure to help out? Extra stringers, or anything? Well, the ribs are truss type., the two that will support the walk I've covered with 1/16th birch ply. I plan to run a 1/4 inch stip alnog the length to hold the walk surface fluch with the top of the ribs an glue some , say 1/2 inch sq spruce betwwn the ribs every 6 " to support them The whole thing shouldn't be too heavy, I reckon, especailly as I'm only going to install one on one side. I would think there should be no more than 6" to a stronger structure as you measure parallel to the grain of the ply face, and perhaps 9 or 10 inches between supports as measured across the grain. Yeah, the ribs are 12 " apart, so thats about right. And ther shoud be no more than that to each cross brace as well. |
#16
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Wing walk ply question.
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#17
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Wing walk ply question.
wrote in news:1169163273.789874.240970
@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: Mustardbuilder wrote: wrote in news:1169135944.927468.166880 @m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: 1/4" ply will bend more easily if you orient the grain across the bend instead of along it. The grain should be parallel to the spars. If it's 1/4" birch ply, that would seem a lot of overkill for a wingwalk. If it's 1/4" pine or fir, it should bend without any problem. Well, I was planning to use birch in fact. hadn't thought about using anything else but now you have me thinking. My real concern about bending the stuff in the first place was, in fact, the stiffness of the Birch ply. I imagined it never reall settling down. The 1/4 birch I have is 12 ply and is like iron! What do the plans call for? Any specific type of plywood? no, he pretty much leaves the whole thing up to the builder. Not much more than a mention that there is one! What hatz.. model of aircraft is it? 1/4" birch is awfully heavy, and if that's what the designer calls for I'd wonder how overbuilt the rest of the airplane is. My Jodel has a wingwalk of 1/8" birch and it's good enough. Well, it's a pretty strong airplane. He calls for Mahogony or birch throughout but I've got a good supply of aircraft birch so that's what I'm using (there's not a lot of ply in it anyway) They come out reasonably light if you don't go nuts on things, though. I have a good idea what I want to do with the wing walk, but I just didn't want to make a mess with the ply top. |
#18
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Wing walk ply question.
Mustardbuilder wrote: wrote in news:1169496475.404255.84720 @m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: ... Dunno, that's what I was asking. I've laminated two pieces of ply together before, just was wondering if it was practical or advisable to do it curved. Laminating a curved piece is, if anything, better than laminating a flat piece, and also better than using a single piece. Yeah, that's what I reckoned. If you laminate it on the curve before the glue sets the laminated plywood will be pre-stressed to the desired curve. You don't need a mold, you can attach one piece, let it set, then glue the second piece over it. Regarding the veneers, the laminated piece should be symetrical. If the pieces have an A and a B face, they should be laminated ABBA or BAAB, not ABAB or BABA. The grain on the new front and back face should be parallel. I'd put the A faces out, ABBA. Well, the don't really. This stuff is so fine it's beyond belief. For instance the 1/4 birch IU have is 12 ply and is one direction on one side and the other on the other side, so it doesn't much matter which way you put it on. Aha, I bet that is exactly why they make it that way. Plywood with the grain on the front and back parallel is 15% stronger (or is it stiffer, I don't remember) vs bending across that grain. Made as you describe, it is more omnidirectional in stiffness. If I were to laminate it for the wing walk, I'd do it with the outer face grain (outside and inside) parallel to the spar It should curve better that way and be a bit stiffer--like the way plywood is laid over joists. But I think aircraft and marine plywood is supposed to have A-grade veneers front and back, right? This stuff has a grade all the way through.. Over on rec.boats some people say they have found marine ply with voids in the interior plys. -- FF |
#19
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Wing walk ply question.
wrote Over on rec.boats some people say they have found marine ply with voids in the interior plys. And I have had a video card fail on a brand-new laptop, in less than a month. Manufacturing defects occur, in everything under the sun. -- Jim in NC |
#20
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Wing walk ply question.
wrote in news:1169587980.886995.205400
@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com: Mustardbuilder wrote: wrote in news:1169496475.404255.84720 @m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com: ... Dunno, that's what I was asking. I've laminated two pieces of ply together before, just was wondering if it was practical or advisable to do it curved. Laminating a curved piece is, if anything, better than laminating a flat piece, and also better than using a single piece. Yeah, that's what I reckoned. If you laminate it on the curve before the glue sets the laminated plywood will be pre-stressed to the desired curve. You don't need a mold, you can attach one piece, let it set, then glue the second piece over it. Regarding the veneers, the laminated piece should be symetrical. If the pieces have an A and a B face, they should be laminated ABBA or BAAB, not ABAB or BABA. The grain on the new front and back face should be parallel. I'd put the A faces out, ABBA. Well, the don't really. This stuff is so fine it's beyond belief. For instance the 1/4 birch IU have is 12 ply and is one direction on one side and the other on the other side, so it doesn't much matter which way you put it on. Aha, I bet that is exactly why they make it that way. Plywood with the grain on the front and back parallel is 15% stronger (or is it stiffer, I don't remember) vs bending across that grain. Made as you describe, it is more omnidirectional in stiffness. If I were to laminate it for the wing walk, I'd do it with the outer face grain (outside and inside) parallel to the spar It should curve better that way and be a bit stiffer--like the way plywood is laid over joists. OK, that makes sense. This stuff is pretty stiff as it is which is why i'd prefer to make it out of two laminated pieces. But I think aircraft and marine plywood is supposed to have A-grade veneers front and back, right? This stuff has a grade all the way through.. Over on rec.boats some people say they have found marine ply with voids in the interior plys. Yeah, i think that's allowed in marine. This stuff is aircraft grade and I've cut up quite a bit of it into small pieces. I've never found even the tiniest spot in it. Bit of sworl on the outer faces from time to time, but nothing even approaching what you'd call a knothole.. |
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