Glider Batteries and Chargers

"brianDG303" wrote in message
...
More about Glider Batteries:

My club's gliders use Gel batteries, probably because they fit the
mounts so well, but mostly the private gliders use a battery type with
many names, I guess it's an SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) except it's not
really sealed. I started to call it an AGM (Acid Glass Matt) which it
has, but suddenly it started to be called a VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead
Acid).

Perhaps I am calling what I use the wrong name.

What kind of battery is it, that is widely available form RC shops, 7 amp
hour, that does not care which side is mounted up, and has two male slide
terminals on it, side by side at one end of the battery?
--
Jim in NC

On Aug 24, 9:09*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"brianDG303" wrote in message

...

More about Glider Batteries:

My club's gliders use Gel batteries, probably because they fit the
mounts so well, but mostly the private gliders use a battery type with
many names, I guess it's an SLA (Sealed Lead Acid) except it's not
really sealed. I started to call it an AGM (Acid Glass Matt) which it
has, but suddenly it started to be called a VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead
Acid).

Perhaps I am calling what I use the wrong name.

What kind of battery is it, that is widely available form RC shops, 7 amp
hour, that does not care which side is mounted up, and has two male slide
terminals on it, side by side at one end of the battery?
--
Jim in NC

Ah what does the label say?

If it is a common type 7Ah lead-acid battery used for powering a
starter or glo-plug etc. then today it is likely a VRLA battery. A
decade or two ago it was more likely to be a real gel cell battery.
Many RC modelers and shops are likely to strictly incorrectly call a
VRLA battery a "gel cell" battery.

Darryl

On Aug 24, 11:39*am, rlovinggood wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:14*am, T8 wrote:

One other thing... DO include a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery
and do make certain that the connections between the CB and the
battery are absolutely as reliable as you can make them (as mentioned
on another thread, problems here aren't covered by your CB). *I
recommend a 5 amp push to reset CB, provided that you have some place
to mount it correctly, teflon insulated aircraft wire of 18ga and
Molex or equivalent industrial quality crimp on connectors which are
*far* better than consumer grade stuff at your hardware store. *This
is a great area to solicit some help if you aren't completely
confident in your ability.

That's my public service announcement for the day :-).

-T8

And Evan, why do we put fuses on the batteries and why do we use
aircraft wire? * I wonder if the aircraft in the following report had
a fused battery and aircraft wire?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...01X51612&key=1

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

We put the fuse right at to the battery so there is never a high
current running through the rest of the circuitry.
Wire short anywhere- fuse blows.
This simple protection prevents having to deal with the consequences
of many sins, including the PVC insulated wire many production gliders
are incorporating.
This is a simple and very useful safety enhancement which costs about
$3 and takes 20 minutes to accomplish.
Unless something falls on the battery terminals, you're pretty well
covered.
FWIW
UH

On Aug 24, 9:01*pm, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:
On Aug 24, 11:14*am, T8 wrote:

One other thing... DO include a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery
and do make certain that the connections between the CB and the
battery are absolutely as reliable as you can make them (as mentioned
on another thread, problems here aren't covered by your CB). *I
recommend a 5 amp push to reset CB, provided that you have some placeer Moxex-type connectors
to mount it correctly, teflon insulated aircraft wire of 18ga and
Molex or equivalent industrial quality crimp on connectors which are
*far* better than consumer grade stuff at your hardware store. *This
is a great area to solicit some help if you aren't completely
confident in your ability.

That's my public service announcement for the day :-).

-T8

For any battery connections I highly recommend Anderson Powerpole
connectors:http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html.
They are hermaphorditic (sexless) and are being used as a defacto
standard in the Amateur Radio community for battery connections. *This
article:http://www.westmountainradio.com/supportrr.htmgives details on their
application. *There was a recent article in one of the ham magazines
discussing their advantages over
Molex-type connectors. *The use of 30-amp size connectors has been
suggested as standard due to their rugged construction and low contact
resistance.
Don.

We also use Powerpoles for the same reason. They will take much more
abuse than Molex connectors and have virtually no power loss. Can get
them at any hobby shop that handles RC cars. Note these are not hobby
products, they are industrial connectors.
UH

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:35:48 -0700, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Its not "omitting" peak-detection, peak detection does not work with
lead-acid batteries and so is irrelevant.

That was a bad short-hand, menat to cover all chemistries.

Lead acid chargers will at
least use a constant current bulk mode, then hopefully a constant
voltage (or current limited constant voltage) absorption mode and then
maybe a float mode. Working out what many of these RC chargers do from
their marketing datasheets or manuals can be a challenge hard.

Fair comment - and as these things don't have a 'current on' lamp or show
the actual current supplied as opposed to the setting. Its quite possible
mine just shut off without me noticing.

Must see what the Vencon does next time I put an SLA on it.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 00:03:09 -0400, Morgans wrote:

"Martin Gregorie" wrote

The only place I've been happy to use untimed chargers is with low
capacity NiCds. My favoured approach there is to use a "1% charge
rate", i.e. charge at 0.01C, and leave the battery permanently on
charge unless I'm flying the model its installed in. NiCds are
frequently used as low- maintenance emergency batteries and these are
invariably left on charge at the 1% rate for years at a time so they
like this treatment. Its really convenient: put the model box back on
its rack after a contest or trimming session, open the lid, connect the
charger and forget about it until next time you go flying.

My strategy for RC NiCads is to charge them with peak charger after
flying, then hook them onto a power strip with all of the other factory
chargers or equivalent which is powered by a 7 day charger. I set it to
come on for 2 hours, once per week.

I found a really simple circuit for building a fixed constant current
circuit plus 'current flowing' LED indicator from an LM358 dual opamp, an
output transistor, a reference Zener and about 4 resistors. I have a
small plastic box containing a row of these, one per model, and simply
run it off a big old 24v mains supply box I built years ago. The circuit
is in the SAMS 'IC OP-AMP Cookbook' but I don't know if thats still in
print.

This works very well indeed for 4 and 5 cell 50 mAh NiCd batteries. They
get fed 900 uA because the dethermaliser timers they drive are always on
(no switch, charging socket in the timer faceplate) and these draw 80-300
uA unless they're releasing the tailplane, when they pull 500mA for 15 mS.

I have one or two higher rate versions sculling round too for other jobs,
such as charging a connection-free 1/2A starter I built, which contains a
set of six NiCd C cells.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Aug 25, 9:25*am, wrote:
On Aug 24, 9:01*pm, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:



On Aug 24, 11:14*am, T8 wrote:

One other thing... DO include a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery
and do make certain that the connections between the CB and the
battery are absolutely as reliable as you can make them (as mentioned
on another thread, problems here aren't covered by your CB). *I
recommend a 5 amp push to reset CB, provided that you have some placeer Moxex-type connectors
to mount it correctly, teflon insulated aircraft wire of 18ga and
Molex or equivalent industrial quality crimp on connectors which are
*far* better than consumer grade stuff at your hardware store. *This
is a great area to solicit some help if you aren't completely
confident in your ability.

That's my public service announcement for the day :-).

-T8

For any battery connections I highly recommend Anderson Powerpole
connectors:http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html.
They are hermaphorditic (sexless) and are being used as a defacto
standard in the Amateur Radio community for battery connections. *This
article:http://www.westmountainradio.com/sup...tmgivesdetails on their
application. *There was a recent article in one of the ham magazines
discussing their advantages over
Molex-type connectors. *The use of 30-amp size connectors has been
suggested as standard due to their rugged construction and low contact
resistance.
Don.

We also use Powerpoles for the same reason. They will take much more
abuse than Molex connectors and have virtually no power loss. Can get
them at any hobby shop that handles RC cars. Note these are not hobby
products, they are industrial connectors.
UH

I'll have to check these out.

FWIW, my Molex recommendation was intended for the spade lug
connectors that attach directly to the battery -- these are bullet
proof. I agree that the Molex disconnects are a little light duty.

-T8

On Aug 25, 7:28*am, T8 wrote:
On Aug 25, 9:25*am, wrote:



On Aug 24, 9:01*pm, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:

On Aug 24, 11:14*am, T8 wrote:

One other thing... DO include a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery
and do make certain that the connections between the CB and the
battery are absolutely as reliable as you can make them (as mentioned
on another thread, problems here aren't covered by your CB). *I
recommend a 5 amp push to reset CB, provided that you have some placeer Moxex-type connectors
to mount it correctly, teflon insulated aircraft wire of 18ga and
Molex or equivalent industrial quality crimp on connectors which are
*far* better than consumer grade stuff at your hardware store. *This
is a great area to solicit some help if you aren't completely
confident in your ability.

That's my public service announcement for the day :-).

-T8

For any battery connections I highly recommend Anderson Powerpole
connectors:http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html.
They are hermaphorditic (sexless) and are being used as a defacto
standard in the Amateur Radio community for battery connections. *This
article:http://www.westmountainradio.com/sup...givesdetailson their
application. *There was a recent article in one of the ham magazines
discussing their advantages over
Molex-type connectors. *The use of 30-amp size connectors has been
suggested as standard due to their rugged construction and low contact
resistance.
Don.

We also use Powerpoles for the same reason. They will take much more
abuse than Molex connectors and have virtually no power loss. Can get
them at any hobby shop that handles RC cars. Note these are not hobby
products, they are industrial connectors.
UH

I'll have to check these out.

FWIW, my Molex recommendation was intended for the spade lug
connectors that attach directly to the battery -- these are bullet
proof. *I agree that the Molex disconnects are a little light duty.

-T8

And good advice.

If you want to be fancy, Molex, 3M or Amp/Tyco FASTON brand fully
insulated *nylon jacketed* female 1/4" blade aka "Faston" or "quick
connect" connectors. You normally want the standard "non-locking"
type, unless you battery terminals have a small hole/depression in
them designed to catch the dimple on a locking style connector (most
do not). The nylon jacket is more robust then the common PVC style.
The really cheap PVC jacketed blade connectors you find in auto parts
stores can be pretty bad. Some PVC jackets are so poorly attached they
can slide off, move up the wire if damaged slightly when crimping on
the connectors.

Other sources for all this stuff is DigiKey (www.digikey.com) - search
for "quick connects", or Mouser Electronics (www.Mouser.com) although
Mouser tend to be more expensive. Buy a bulk bag of them and they'll
last forever.

Darryl

On Aug 25, 7:52*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Aug 25, 7:28*am, T8 wrote:



On Aug 25, 9:25*am, wrote:

On Aug 24, 9:01*pm, Donald S Brant Jr wrote:

On Aug 24, 11:14*am, T8 wrote:

One other thing... DO include a fuse or circuit breaker at the battery
and do make certain that the connections between the CB and the
battery are absolutely as reliable as you can make them (as mentioned
on another thread, problems here aren't covered by your CB). *I
recommend a 5 amp push to reset CB, provided that you have some placeer Moxex-type connectors
to mount it correctly, teflon insulated aircraft wire of 18ga and
Molex or equivalent industrial quality crimp on connectors which are
*far* better than consumer grade stuff at your hardware store. *This
is a great area to solicit some help if you aren't completely
confident in your ability.

That's my public service announcement for the day :-).

-T8

For any battery connections I highly recommend Anderson Powerpole
connectors:http://www.andersonpower.com/product...onnectors.html.
They are hermaphorditic (sexless) and are being used as a defacto
standard in the Amateur Radio community for battery connections. *This
article:http://www.westmountainradio.com/sup...detailsontheir
application. *There was a recent article in one of the ham magazines
discussing their advantages over
Molex-type connectors. *The use of 30-amp size connectors has been
suggested as standard due to their rugged construction and low contact
resistance.
Don.

We also use Powerpoles for the same reason. They will take much more
abuse than Molex connectors and have virtually no power loss. Can get
them at any hobby shop that handles RC cars. Note these are not hobby
products, they are industrial connectors.
UH

I'll have to check these out.

FWIW, my Molex recommendation was intended for the spade lug
connectors that attach directly to the battery -- these are bullet
proof. *I agree that the Molex disconnects are a little light duty.

-T8

And good advice.

If you want to be fancy, Molex, 3M or Amp/Tyco FASTON brand fully
insulated *nylon jacketed* female 1/4" blade aka "Faston" or "quick
connect" connectors. You normally want the standard "non-locking"
type, unless you battery terminals have a small hole/depression in
them designed to catch the dimple on a locking style *connector (most
do not). The nylon jacket is more robust then the common PVC style.
The really cheap PVC jacketed blade connectors you find in auto parts
stores can be pretty bad. Some PVC jackets are so poorly attached they
can slide off, move up the wire if damaged slightly when crimping on
the connectors.

Other sources for all this stuff is DigiKey (www.digikey.com) - search
for "quick connects", or Mouser Electronics (www.Mouser.com) although
Mouser tend to be more expensive. Buy a bulk bag of them and they'll
last forever.

Darryl

Darryl ,
another source of very high quality crimp-on connectors, if you just
want to drive to a local store, is electrical supply houses. They
stock UL listed (to 600 volts) terminals by companies like Turner &
Betts and Panduit. They have to meet a performance spec and they are
not cheap, and they are quite good. I share your frustration as
everyone in my club has one of those kits they got at Sears or Radio
Shack with the bogus tool. The terminals fail over and over so you
tend to see that kit come out quite often.

Brian

On Aug 24, 6:49*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Aug 24, 7:03*am, Grider Pirate wrote:

VSLA? A123? Cycling chargers?? *I think this subject should have it's
own thread. *Unlike transponders, we almost all need them.

Some comments below, in general and picking up a few things in other
posts/threads and reposting some things I've said elsewhere recently.

Most "smart" chargers are really pretty dumb ...clip...

I would add to this informative long post that desulfating chargers
are very helpful in extending the life of, and restoring, lead-acid
batteries. (Google "battery desulfation" or read
http://www.chargingchargers.com/tuto...sulfation.html as
an example)

Schumacher makes 2 desulfating chargers, available in auto stores or
via Internet for about $75. I use their model WM-6000A on my stored
automobiles, and have used it to quickly resuscitate my 12-v gel-cell
glider batteries, as well as to restore 2 batteries to usable
condition this summer after leaving the master on in the trailer for a
week. (They were all but shorted out.)

VDC Electronics seems to have the broadest line of desulfating
chargers. ( http://www.batteryminders.com ) I use their Concorde-
specific charger with my Mooney, which is designed for that battery
and is temperature compensated.

Their desulfating BatteryMinder Plus model 12117 can be had on the web
for about $45 plus shipping, and will maintain up to 5 batteries. A
summary of their non-aviation-specific chargers is in pdf format at
http://www.rvupgrades.info/batterymindermanual.pdf

They also make a solar desulfating charger available with either a 5-
watt or 15-watt panel My glider has 2 electrical systems, and I
mounted 2 15-watt desulfating chargers on the trailer roof, which is
very nice. I only wish they would work by moonlight.