An uncomfy Q for the aviators here

You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like the
taxi speed limit. What do you do?

a) Hope the Cap'n recognizes the deviation on his own;
b) Just pretend you didn't notice it;
c) Get the Cap'n a coffee and gently suggest that you thought
something's a wee amiss; or
d) Tell the Cap'n immediately and emphatically... not recommended, I'd
imagine, considering you'd probably have to work together often after
that too

Presume that there isn't a procedure in the SOP on how to handle
deviations of the Cap'n (kidding)

At least one very experienced pilot has told me that such a scenario
isn't as highly improbable as I'd first imagined

Cheers,

Ramapriya

Ramapriya wrote:
You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like
the taxi speed limit. What do you do?


"Hey Bud, check the speed."

Try the Carnegie approach - "You've always been such a behavior model
to me that I'm surprised that you are (whatever). Is there a reason
for the change?"

You might have to step into the RR to throw up afterward, but sometimes
it works.

Why didn't you just go ahead and say "using the autobrakes"?



"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like the
taxi speed limit. What do you do?

a) Hope the Cap'n recognizes the deviation on his own;
b) Just pretend you didn't notice it;
c) Get the Cap'n a coffee and gently suggest that you thought
something's a wee amiss; or
d) Tell the Cap'n immediately and emphatically... not recommended, I'd
imagine, considering you'd probably have to work together often after
that too

Presume that there isn't a procedure in the SOP on how to handle
deviations of the Cap'n (kidding)

At least one very experienced pilot has told me that such a scenario
isn't as highly improbable as I'd first imagined

Cheers,

Ramapriya

"Ramapriya" wrote
You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like the
taxi speed limit. What do you do?
Presume that there isn't a procedure in the SOP on how to handle
deviations of the Cap'n (kidding)

Ramapriya.... probably the wrong newsgroup since very few of the readers
of this group have trained as, or served as a second-in-command in an
aircarrier's "cockpit resource management" (CRM) program.

When I first joined PanAm in 1967, one did not dare correct one of the
old WWII Clipper "gods". Actually, the flight engineer might get away with
it better than the copilot because he belonged to a different union.
Because of this cockpit atmosphere, we crashed 13 of our 130 B-707s.
Then, after an analysis, the FAA demanded a week-long CRM course for all
flightcrew members and revisions to the operating manuals to require that
ANY deviation from SOP be called to the attention of the pilot flying.
With this now being taught in the simulator sessions, the "captains" began
to accept it as normal procedure during line flying. Of course, by this
time, most of the "gods" were retireing and the upgrading copilots who had
suffered for years without CRM turned out to be much more understanding
and accepting pilots-in-command.

At least one very experienced pilot has told me that such a scenario
isn't as highly improbable as I'd first imagined

Read some of the following incidents pertaining to CRM issues.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report_sets/crm.pdf

Bob Moore

JohnH wrote:
Ramapriya wrote:
You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like
the taxi speed limit. What do you do?

"Hey Bud, check the speed."


I intended to mean something less trivial than the taxi speed limit. My
non-native english blues to the fore again

Ramapriya

Ramapriya wrote:
JohnH wrote:
Ramapriya wrote:

You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like
the taxi speed limit. What do you do?

"Hey Bud, check the speed."

I intended to mean something less trivial than the taxi speed limit.

John is simply providing an example of how he would handle it. Another way to
put it would be that the co-pilot should diplomatically point out the situation
to the captain. That is also what I would do.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

""It sure is tough to taxi downhill and with a tailwind without using the
brakes..""

BT

"Ramapriya" wrote in message
oups.com...
You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like the
taxi speed limit. What do you do?

a) Hope the Cap'n recognizes the deviation on his own;
b) Just pretend you didn't notice it;
c) Get the Cap'n a coffee and gently suggest that you thought
something's a wee amiss; or
d) Tell the Cap'n immediately and emphatically... not recommended, I'd
imagine, considering you'd probably have to work together often after
that too

Presume that there isn't a procedure in the SOP on how to handle
deviations of the Cap'n (kidding)

At least one very experienced pilot has told me that such a scenario
isn't as highly improbable as I'd first imagined

Cheers,

Ramapriya

Whatever you say, if you are in the cockpit of a commercial airliner, it
might be a good idea to remember that what you say may well end up being
broadcast around the world.

Think "Cockpit Voice Recorder"...


"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:LQhof.1365$Jr1.676@trnddc01...
Ramapriya wrote:
JohnH wrote:
Ramapriya wrote:

You're the First Officer. You notice the Cap'n deviating on something
from the airline's SOP, and it's more important than something like
the taxi speed limit. What do you do?

"Hey Bud, check the speed."

I intended to mean something less trivial than the taxi speed limit.

John is simply providing an example of how he would handle it. Another way
to
put it would be that the co-pilot should diplomatically point out the
situation
to the captain. That is also what I would do.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong
to
your slightly older self.

The airlines spent millions on CRM trainning specifically to answer
that question. I would be surprised if any U.S. flag carrier didn't
have a standard procedure for what a First Officer should do in this
situation.

-Robert