Cockpit video recording -- the time is now.

Thanks Mike,

I thought Flarm was mandated in Europe.Â* I'm pretty sure France requires
it in the Alps, but that's neither here nor there.Â* I believe your
gliding community is independent from your government (BGA), but ours is
not.Â* We're under the FAA where their motto is "We're not happy until
you're not happy".Â* In the US Flarm was initially rejected by our FCC
(Federal Communications Commission), and it had to be modified (I don't
know how), to meet our requirements.Â* Flarm is not mandatory in the US
except in SSA sanctioned contests (I think) but, since I don't fly in
contests, I'm not affected by that.

As I said elsewhere, I use Flarm because I wanted to.Â* I often fly past
Santa Fe, New Mexico, where there is a lot of general aviation traffic,
including jets, and I like being able to see them on my Flarm display.

On 10/3/2018 10:45 AM, Mike Oliver wrote:
This is going off the original topic but actually Dan I'm not sure that
'the government' anywhere here in Europe (still in at the moment,UK)
has mandated Flarm. It's mandated in France certainly but I'm fairly
sure it was the FFVV, the gliding community that mandated it after an
accident in which I believe 3 but possibly even 4 people lost their lives.

The risks may be different in that in parts of France ie The Alps, on a
busy day you can have several hundred gliders in a relatively small
area.

At 15:50 03 October 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:
That hardly requires an answer, Mike.ÂÂ* I had seat belts in my car long
before they were mandated; it was my choice, not the government's,
and
I'd still have them without the mandate. Likewise, I've flown legacy
aircraft which didn't have shoulder straps without wetting my pants
over
the hazards.

For the last time:ÂÂ* Choose what works for you and let me choose for
myself.ÂÂ* Try to force me and we'll have a problem.

On 10/3/2018 8:50 AM, Mike Oliver wrote:
What about straps Dan? I believe they are mandated. Should that
be
removed


--
Dan, 5J

Gee - I'm sorry that I'm not a responsible individual according to your
definition.Â* When you couch your arguments with negative adjectives to
describe people who don't agree with you, you lose all credibility.

On 10/3/2018 12:16 PM, Magnetar wrote:
Just to be clear, the FFVV (now FFVP) never mandated anything. It is asked for any pilot to be responsible and use Flarm to be visible to other pilots when flying the Alps. It is therefore common practice to use this tool and nobody in a sane condition would fly there without it. Like having anti-collision decals on your glider to be more visible against a snow cap for instance. You won't be fined if you don't have it, you would just be a complete jerk.

When you are flying the Parcours with probably several dozens of gliders in the vicinity, it is a VERY useful tool to avoid crashing into one another and look for potential collision hazards in the right direction. It would require superhuman capabilities to do this without this tool.
Now, it doesn't stop people from being complete a-holes and charge against other gliders just to get in a thermal or avoid deviating from their 'best energy' routes. Not everybody is a gentleman.

Flying is a privilege that should be preserved, the safer it gets, the more enjoyable it will be. Cameras, Flarms, ADS-B, etc... it's up to every pilot to be responsible in which tool they use to make themselves (and thus the others) safe.

--
Dan, 5J

At 11:28 03 October 2018, Jim White wrote:
At 02:33 03 October 2018, Roy B. wrote:
But your camera idea does not even qualify as an accident avoidanc
device
=
I have found my camera to be an excellent diagnostic device that ma
prevent me having an accident in future by showing me what daft
behaviour
I can display in field landings etc.

Also, in UK competition, it is very rare for any pilot to be called befor
the safety committee. This has a lot to do with buddies not wanting t
sneak on each other but also because there is no real objective
evidence o
miscreant flying which could lead to all sorts of unpleasantness i
discussion. Poor discipline in racing gaggles shows up very well on m
camera.

Jim


It's OK Jim, we forgive your "inventive" thermal joining. It's only a
problem for one or 2 climbs anyway ;-)

At 08:49 04 October 2018, Dan Pitman wrote:
It's OK Jim, we forgive your "inventive" thermal joining. It's only a
problem for one or 2 climbs anyway ;-)

Was that you? Shouldn't have such big wings....

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

....Â* Flarm is not mandatory in the US except in SSA sanctioned contests (I think)....
--
Dan, 5J

Nope, not mandatory in US contests. Encouraged, and if you have it, they can tell you in advance of the contest what mode(s) are not permitted or are required. But the device itself is not required. Williams Soaring has been very generously providing a rental pool of portable FLARM units at a very reasonable cost to the user. I think this has helped a few people see the benefits of the device, and may have helped increase market penetration a bit.

Steve Leonard

Thanks Steve.Â* I have a portable unit mounted to my glare shield and am
happy with its performance except from below (carbon and all that).Â*
Some day I may install ADS-B; just looking for the right device(s).

On 10/4/2018 8:05 AM, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

....Â* Flarm is not mandatory in the US except in SSA sanctioned contests (I think)....
--
Dan, 5J
Nope, not mandatory in US contests. Encouraged, and if you have it, they can tell you in advance of the contest what mode(s) are not permitted or are required. But the device itself is not required. Williams Soaring has been very generously providing a rental pool of portable FLARM units at a very reasonable cost to the user. I think this has helped a few people see the benefits of the device, and may have helped increase market penetration a bit.

Steve Leonard

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, October 4, 2018 at 8:05:57 AM UTC-6, Steve Leonard wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:

....Â* Flarm is not mandatory in the US except in SSA sanctioned contests (I think)....
--
Dan, 5J

Nope, not mandatory in US contests. Encouraged, and if you have it, they can tell you in advance of the contest what mode(s) are not permitted or are required. But the device itself is not required. Williams Soaring has been very generously providing a rental pool of portable FLARM units at a very reasonable cost to the user. I think this has helped a few people see the benefits of the device, and may have helped increase market penetration a bit.

Steve Leonard

Ahhhhh......not exactly right.

Example from 2016 Nephi SSA contest......"Per waiver, PowerFlarm is MANDATORY for this contest".

In the USA, if an SSA contest organizer wishes, they can make PowerFlarm mandatory, with a waiver from the rule's committee.

Best. #711.

On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 8:50:53 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
That hardly requires an answer, Mike.Â* I had seat belts in my car long
before they were mandated; it was my choice, not the government's, and
I'd still have them without the mandate. Likewise, I've flown legacy
aircraft which didn't have shoulder straps without wetting my pants over
the hazards.

For the last time:Â* Choose what works for you and let me choose for
myself.Â* Try to force me and we'll have a problem.

On 10/3/2018 8:50 AM, Mike Oliver wrote:
What about straps Dan? I believe they are mandated. Should that be
removed?




At 14:29 03 October 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:

On 10/2/2018 9:32 PM, Roy B. wrote:
My point however - was (and is) that if you can't get people to
mandate
use of an accident prevention device - how are you going to mandate
a
accident diagnostic device?
I was, am, and will always be against mandating FLARM, cameras, or
any
other devices in the cockpit, yet I have it installed in my current
glider and had it in my previous glider, as well (and I'm very pleased
with its performance).ÂÂ* I took a lot of heat quite a few years back
when
I took a position against mandating FLARM.ÂÂ* It's the mandating part
that
I object to, not the device itself.

By all means, make your proposal, support it with arguments, and
congratulate all the adopters, but count me out on this one.
--
Dan, 5J


--
Dan, 5J

So it's official, Dan has come out against mandating seat belts in cars and presumably in aircraft. Another no compromise analysis. Brilliant.

On Friday, October 5, 2018 at 2:15:30 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Wednesday, October 3, 2018 at 8:50:53 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
That hardly requires an answer, Mike.Â* I had seat belts in my car long
before they were mandated; it was my choice, not the government's, and
I'd still have them without the mandate. Likewise, I've flown legacy
aircraft which didn't have shoulder straps without wetting my pants over
the hazards.

For the last time:Â* Choose what works for you and let me choose for
myself.Â* Try to force me and we'll have a problem.

On 10/3/2018 8:50 AM, Mike Oliver wrote:
What about straps Dan? I believe they are mandated. Should that be
removed?




At 14:29 03 October 2018, Dan Marotta wrote:

On 10/2/2018 9:32 PM, Roy B. wrote:
My point however - was (and is) that if you can't get people to
mandate
use of an accident prevention device - how are you going to mandate
a
accident diagnostic device?
I was, am, and will always be against mandating FLARM, cameras, or
any
other devices in the cockpit, yet I have it installed in my current
glider and had it in my previous glider, as well (and I'm very pleased
with its performance).ÂÂ* I took a lot of heat quite a few years back
when
I took a position against mandating FLARM.ÂÂ* It's the mandating part
that
I object to, not the device itself.

By all means, make your proposal, support it with arguments, and
congratulate all the adopters, but count me out on this one.
--
Dan, 5J


--
Dan, 5J

So it's official, Dan has come out against mandating seat belts in cars and presumably in aircraft. Another no compromise analysis. Brilliant.

I didn't get that at all from Dan's posts. I really appreciate the general idea of this thread--encouraging video monitoring in the cockpit. But I too share his (Dan's) apprehension about MANDATING this. I would encourage us to voluntarily do this, but to force someone to do it is a completely different matter.

Fair enough John. It seems like most guys are reacting along that line. Do look back to my Oct 2 post suggesting that there needn't be a mandate if insurance rates became the motivating mechanism.