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"Refusing to Handle You"



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 17th 05, 02:25 AM
Michelle P
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You would be mistaken. The QC dept. is not floor supervisors. The have
to look at it. I have made several calls to Potomac TRACON QC and I have
seen improvements in their services. I do the same for Leesburg FSS and
I have seen changes there as well. One controller got a few days off for
being rude and just plain wrong.
Michelle


Warren Jones wrote:

"Michelle P" wrote in message
ink.net...


Mike,
A phone call to their QA/QC dept. in order.
540-349-7500 main number
540-349-7548 QC dept. if no answer in a couple of days call the number
below.
540-349-7505 for the QC Manager.
Have the time, frequency and tail number ready. You will likely need to
leave a phone message.
Let them know they refused the hand off from Washington.
Michelle




Michelle, what good would come of such a phone call? QA will give you lip
service, but you'd be wasting your time calling about this IMO.

Chip, ZTL





  #12  
Old July 17th 05, 02:29 AM
A Lieberman
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 00:28:20 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
.. .

You are PIC. I would have declared an emergency and squawked 7700.


What would the emergency be?


Putting me into a heading that weather may compromise my safety. I am
basing this on Mikes original post.

He had a storm scope in which he was able to somewhat verify the weather
improved. I don't have this.

Allen
  #13  
Old July 17th 05, 02:56 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Shouldn't that be taken into consideration by ATC prior to issuance of the
clearance?


They probably did. Remember, they initially issued a different route which
was declined due to weather. Perhaps they then issued the route through the
TRACON hoping they could sell it to approach.


  #14  
Old July 17th 05, 02:59 AM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

Putting me into a heading that weather may compromise my safety. I am
basing this on Mikes original post.


Denying you your desired route does not require you to fly into any weather.


  #15  
Old July 17th 05, 03:08 AM
A Lieberman
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 01:59:10 GMT, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...

Putting me into a heading that weather may compromise my safety. I am
basing this on Mikes original post.


Denying you your desired route does not require you to fly into any weather.


If the weather was behind you like Mike described, and you can't proceed
forward, that in my opinion would be an emergency. He couldn't go further
on, and had to retrace his steps which would put have put him into bad
weather. His words we

So now, here I am, in the air with two small kids
on board, and being turned back towards what was, a while back at
least, some nasty weather.


I am making a lot of assumptions, since Mike was the one there and I was
not, so I don't know any other alternatives he had.

Again, if the weather was behind him and he couldn't proceed further on,
being turned back into nasty weather (his words, not mine) can be
considered an emergency.

Allen
  #16  
Old July 17th 05, 03:20 AM
Mike Granby
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Well, to be fair, my "outs" would have been to either hold at HGR until
the storms fizzled out, or to land back at KHGR and wait it out on the
ground. So, no, I wasn't really in an emergency, just in an awkward
position, especially without access to real-time weather in the
cockpit. Plan B would have been to call flight service from the hold
and see what their radar was showing. What puzzled me was why I got the
clearance in the first place if it wasn't going to be honored. Of
course, in a few weeks, when the GPSMAP-396 arrives, none of this will
be an issue anymore...

  #17  
Old July 17th 05, 05:10 AM
Lynne
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Back before I retired from Tower Air, we used to do something similar
quite frequently. I was on the B747-200 and a route which I did quite
frequently was JFK to LLBG (Ben Gurion; Tel Aviv, Israel). Due to range
constraints on the -200, we would not be able to legally file LLBG as
our destination, due to inadequate fuel reserves. Due to this, we would
file for LGAV (Athens, Greece) out of JFK, and approximately 500 NM
from LGAV, if the weather was good at LLBG, and we had the fuel to do
it, we would refile for LLBG. If the weather or fuel situation was not
good, we would land at LGAV, and fuel up then continue on to LLBG.

In the many years that I did this, Eurocontrol never once gave me any
trouble about it. It's a perfectly legitimate way to go about your
business while in the IFR system.

Lynne

  #18  
Old July 17th 05, 05:44 AM
Jose
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I am given the route via SCAPE, but I
"unable" that for weather, and they go away for a few minutes, and then
clear me as filed. I take off, and everything is fine, until I'm headed
southbound from the HGR VOR, when the Washington Center controller
calls me and says "Err, 8096J, Potomac Approach is refusing to handle
you, say intentions."


"I intend to fly my clearance. What are yours?" Hmmph.

Ok, might not put it quite that way, but I have a clearance and the
alternative of flying through thunderstorms is not acceptable. I think
I might ask what they mean "refused to handle me", but in any case a
NASA report is in order.

I would refuse to fly through thunderstorms to make them happy. If I
had spherics I would have more options, but blind and knowing what's
probably out there, I would have solid grounds for saying "unable" and
letting them sort it out later.

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #19  
Old July 17th 05, 01:18 PM
Matt Whiting
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

Shouldn't that be taken into consideration by ATC prior to issuance of the
clearance?



They probably did. Remember, they initially issued a different route which
was declined due to weather. Perhaps they then issued the route through the
TRACON hoping they could sell it to approach.



OK. I always figured that the route was "pre sold" end to end before
being issued. I've gotten partial route clearances before and assumed
that was what happened when they couldn't get the entire route approved.
I'd have never guessed that getting a full route clearance left open
this sort of possibility. That seems bizarre to me.


Matt
  #20  
Old July 17th 05, 01:29 PM
Roy Smith
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Matt Whiting wrote:
OK. I always figured that the route was "pre sold" end to end before
being issued. I've gotten partial route clearances before and assumed
that was what happened when they couldn't get the entire route approved.
I'd have never guessed that getting a full route clearance left open
this sort of possibility. That seems bizarre to me.


Are you saying you've never gotten a reroute in flight?
 




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