GLIDING INTERNATIONAL -- RESEARCH

On 11/3/19 10:04 AM, wrote:
We at Gliding International have just completed a three months study on the accident sitution in regard to our sport. We have examined (in detail) the 96 reported accidents which show that our problematic area of soaring flight relates to the landing phase.

Also in our November issue is a report from Sebastian Kawa who has personally set out to explain his recent serious accident. ... Basically the accident emanated from the failure of his motor to start.

Could you prepare a detailed study on the reliability of "means of
propulsion" of sailplanes?

What percentage of in flight start attempts are unsuccessful?

Eg: Self launch verses sustainer. Internal combustion verses jet verses
electric. Failure to start verses running out of fuel/energy. Failure
rates of control, deploy and retract systems. Fires and electrical
faults, while flying and on the ground. Recharging and refueling
incidents, etc.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 5:23:51 PM UTC-8, wrote:
2G Your welcome to pay my insurance for next year. The majority of fatal accidents this past year have involved high performance machines, some with aux power some without. Not 1-26’s, not 2-33’s, not dusters or cherokees or phoebus or libelles. But the very fact that I now have to pay thru the nose for my very low performance machine due to the idiocy of “pilots� with way more money than aeronautic sense is very graiting!

You are WELCOME TO PAY MINE! You didn't address a SINGLE point that I made!! PM me and I will give you my address to send the check to - $3k should cover it.

Tom

And 2G you missed dang near the ENTIRE point of my posts but so be it. I will make you a deal, you step down from the lofty heights of high performance soaring and race in the 1-26 nationals this year (I will even supply you with the machine) and whoever wins pays the other guys insurance for the year.

What a deal! Who knows you might even have a whole lot of fun and that insurance bill you will be paying of mine won’t put that big of a dent in your wallet.

.....no wait.....with only 23/1 L/D, you are probably gonna need at least twice that to get anywhere.... never mind...I don’t want the CD to under task us all on your account.

It is utterly ludicrous to claim that insurance premiums don’t rise when there are more accidents. Typical 2G bull****.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 11/4/2019 5:23 PM:
2G Your welcome to pay my insurance for next year. The majority of fatal
accidents this past year have involved high performance machines, some with
aux power some without. Not 1-26’s, not 2-33’s, not dusters or cherokees or
phoebus or libelles. But the very fact that I now have to pay thru the nose
for my very low performance machine due to the idiocy of “pilots� with way more
money than aeronautic sense is very graiting!

Is it possible the insurance companies know that, and set the rates accordingly?
And why wouldn't they know that - obviously, they have lots of data on the
situation! And, we know they adjust their rates, based on the pilot's hours,
rating, and - I believe - the kind of glider he flies. If so, you are not paying
more because a high performance glider has an accident. Perhaps you have some
evidence that an accident to a $200,000 motorglider raises the rate on a 1-26?

Mr. Costello has had articles in Soaring and given talks on insurance company
costs. AT times, ground damage has been the major cost, not crashes. Stuff like
trailer accidents, cars hitting gliders, canopies damaged, wings dropped during
assembly, hangar fires (Barstow!), wind damage, etc.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

One set of data-
From my shop the last 2 years. Insurance claims only;
1-34- Accident in the pattern. Hit Soccer goal- Not economical to repair
1-26E Land in trees on ridge. Not economical to repair
1-26D- Blew out of tie down. Not economical to repair
Twin Grob- Replace rear canopy- left unlocked
ASW-24- Replace canopy and repair wings- gun shots while in trailer
ASW-20 - Replace canopy- Rock from lawn mower
PIK-20- Replace canopy and repair hinges- owner error on ground
304S Shark. Water landing in marsh after engine non start. Likely out of fuel.

FWIW
UH

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 9:34:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 11/4/2019 5:23 PM:
2G Your welcome to pay my insurance for next year. The majority of fatal
accidents this past year have involved high performance machines, some with
aux power some without. Not 1-26’s, not 2-33’s, not dusters or cherokees or
phoebus or libelles. But the very fact that I now have to pay thru the nose
for my very low performance machine due to the idiocy of “pilots� with way more
money than aeronautic sense is very graiting!

Is it possible the insurance companies know that, and set the rates accordingly?
And why wouldn't they know that - obviously, they have lots of data on the
situation! And, we know they adjust their rates, based on the pilot's hours,
rating, and - I believe - the kind of glider he flies. If so, you are not paying
more because a high performance glider has an accident. Perhaps you have some
evidence that an accident to a $200,000 motorglider raises the rate on a 1-26?

Mr. Costello has had articles in Soaring and given talks on insurance company
costs. AT times, ground damage has been the major cost, not crashes. Stuff like
trailer accidents, cars hitting gliders, canopies damaged, wings dropped during
assembly, hangar fires (Barstow!), wind damage, etc.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

One set of data-
From my shop the last 2 years. Insurance claims only;
1-34- Accident in the pattern. Hit Soccer goal- Not economical to repair
1-26E Land in trees on ridge. Not economical to repair
1-26D- Blew out of tie down. Not economical to repair
Twin Grob- Replace rear canopy- left unlocked
ASW-24- Replace canopy and repair wings- gun shots while in trailer
ASW-20 - Replace canopy- Rock from lawn mower
PIK-20- Replace canopy and repair hinges- owner error on ground
304S Shark. Water landing in marsh after engine non start. Likely out of fuel.

FWIW
UH

Is there a good story behind the ASW-24 getting shot? Ex wife, golf cart drive by shooting, redneck rampage, unlucky parking spot, wildlife scene painted on trailer?

The Rotax 914F2/S1 in my Stemme has never failed to start.Â* That said,
I'm never outside of gliding distance of a paved airport. True, this
limits me some but, should I ever need the engine and it should fail to
start, it'll be a non event.

On 11/4/2019 9:56 PM, ian wrote:
On 11/3/19 10:04 AM, wrote:
We at Gliding International have just completed a three months study
on the accident sitution in regard to our sport.Â* We have examined
(in detail) the 96 reported accidents which show that our problematic
area of soaringÂ* flight relates to the landing phase.

Also in our November issue is a report from Sebastian Kawa who has
personally set out to explain his recent serious accident. ...
Basically the accident emanated from the failure of hisÂ* motor to start.

Could you prepare a detailed study on the reliability of "means of
propulsion" of sailplanes?

What percentage of in flight start attempts are unsuccessful?

Eg: Self launch verses sustainer. Internal combustion verses jet
verses electric. Failure to start verses running out of fuel/energy.
Failure rates of control, deploy and retract systems. Fires and
electrical faults, while flying and on the ground. Recharging and
refueling incidents, etc.

--
Dan, 5J

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 8:00:19 PM UTC-8, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Is it possible the insurance companies know that, and set the rates accordingly?
And why wouldn't they know that - obviously, they have lots of data on the
situation! And, we know they adjust their rates, based on the pilot's hours,
rating, and - I believe - the kind of glider he flies. If so, you are not paying
more because a high performance glider has an accident. Perhaps you have some
evidence that an accident to a $200,000 motorglider raises the rate on a 1-26?

Mr. Costello has had articles in Soaring and given talks on insurance company
costs. AT times, ground damage has been the major cost, not crashes. Stuff like
trailer accidents, cars hitting gliders, canopies damaged, wings dropped during
assembly, hangar fires (Barstow!), wind damage, etc.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

One issue that hasn't been mentioned is that almost every new glider coming into the US has some type of propulsion system. Generally, that should will increase the percentage of motorglider accidents annually.
Eric, one comment on trashing expensive gliders. When I bought my 31, I was going to cancel my insurance on my D2 to save a few hundred dollars. The insurance broker cautioned against that because getting a "new" policy for the 31 instead of making a change on an existing policy may not happen and rates (higher) would reflect a new policy. Why? Because of a JS-1c (among others) that had recently been totaled. Rates were adjusted up a tick as a result.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 10:12:14 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 9:34:04 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 11/4/2019 5:23 PM:
2G Your welcome to pay my insurance for next year. The majority of fatal
accidents this past year have involved high performance machines, some with
aux power some without. Not 1-26’s, not 2-33’s, not dusters or cherokees or
phoebus or libelles. But the very fact that I now have to pay thru the nose
for my very low performance machine due to the idiocy of “pilots� with way more
money than aeronautic sense is very graiting!

Is it possible the insurance companies know that, and set the rates accordingly?
And why wouldn't they know that - obviously, they have lots of data on the
situation! And, we know they adjust their rates, based on the pilot's hours,
rating, and - I believe - the kind of glider he flies. If so, you are not paying
more because a high performance glider has an accident. Perhaps you have some
evidence that an accident to a $200,000 motorglider raises the rate on a 1-26?

Mr. Costello has had articles in Soaring and given talks on insurance company
costs. AT times, ground damage has been the major cost, not crashes. Stuff like
trailer accidents, cars hitting gliders, canopies damaged, wings dropped during
assembly, hangar fires (Barstow!), wind damage, etc.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

One set of data-
From my shop the last 2 years. Insurance claims only;
1-34- Accident in the pattern. Hit Soccer goal- Not economical to repair
1-26E Land in trees on ridge. Not economical to repair
1-26D- Blew out of tie down. Not economical to repair
Twin Grob- Replace rear canopy- left unlocked
ASW-24- Replace canopy and repair wings- gun shots while in trailer
ASW-20 - Replace canopy- Rock from lawn mower
PIK-20- Replace canopy and repair hinges- owner error on ground
304S Shark. Water landing in marsh after engine non start. Likely out of fuel.

FWIW
UH

Is there a good story behind the ASW-24 getting shot? Ex wife, golf cart drive by shooting, redneck rampage, unlucky parking spot, wildlife scene painted on trailer?

Shot at TSA last year during Std nationals for no obvious reason besides "hold my beer and watch this". May have thought(stretch here) that they were just shooting at the trailer. Got trailer, both wings, canopy, and instrument panel.
We left the bullet hole in the panel to retain the history of the glider. Owner was crushed, having just spent his winter time off doing a refinish.
You can not think this **** up.
UH