Scared of mid-airs

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...

Of course.

How else would a pilot without an instrument rating file a flight
plan?


Yes, I know, I was trying to help Larry understand.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Well, an IFR flight plan is a little more than that because it causes a
clearance to be issued before I take off (at least in controlled
airspace).

Not so. Lots of IFR flight plans are filed without causing any clearance to
be issued.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...


Are there IFR and VFR flight plans?


Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:

Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.

If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.


But he wrote that in response to your question. So what prompted you to ask
it?

A flight plan is an expression of intention to fly.

Obviously you are being difficult. "Flying on an IFR flight plan"
implies either uncontrolled airspace, or a clearance. The former is an
invitation to an FAA hearing. The latter implies ATC coordination.

Guess which one I'm referring to.

When the flight launches, ATC then provides services.

Exactly.

Did you miss the part where I said ALL MILITARY FLIGHTS ARE OPERATING
ON FLIGHT PLANS AND IFR?

No. But you seem to be dodging the issue by hiding behind stuff like "A
flight plan is an expression of intention to fly." Did you miss the
part where you yourself said "Training time along an MTR, within a MOA,
in restricted airspace, or on a range is usually done without ATC
involvement."? The IFR I am familiar with always has ATC involvement.

Are you on an ATC clearance at that point? Are you on an ATC clearance
in an MTR (IR or VR)?

...they operate together and the sky does not seem
to be raining airplanes.

And, the military is NOT "blaming anybody who happens to be in the way
for the MAC."

Who was responsible for the MAC where the cessna, while attempting to
turn away, was speared by an F-something at 350 knots or so?

Yes, one example, but an egregious one in my book, and one you seem to
be defending.

Ever been on an airliner?

Ever flown a bug smasher?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Lots of IFR flight plans are filed without causing any clearance to
be issued.

All the IFR flight plans I filed caused a clearance to be issued before
I took off. (for the other ones I didn't take off).

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

Obviously you are being difficult. "Flying on an IFR flight plan" implies
either uncontrolled airspace, or a clearance. The former is an invitation
to an FAA hearing. The latter implies ATC coordination.

Guess which one I'm referring to.


How is the former an invitation to an FAA hearing?

"Jose" wrote in message
m...

All the IFR flight plans I filed caused a clearance to be issued before I
took off. (for the other ones I didn't take off).


You didn't limit your statement to IFR flight plans that you filed.

On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 16:49:53 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote in
. net:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .


Are there IFR and VFR flight plans?


Yes, but our resident fighter pilot asserts:

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 16:34:22 GMT, Ed Rasimus
wrote in
:

Regardless, the flight plan type for the military is IFR.

If that were true, it prompts my questioning the need for VFR MTRs.


But he wrote that in response to your question. So what prompted you to ask
it?


It was largely rhetorical.

If Mr. Rasimus' assertion, that the flight plan type for the military
is IFR is correct, and MTRs are created for military use, why are
there VFR MTRs? Presumably the military won't be operating VFR on VFR
MTRs.

How is the former an invitation to an FAA hearing?

There was a case where a pilot took off on an IFR flight plan in
uncontrolled airspace (yes I'm aware of the uncontrolled airspace below
700') and was cited for careless and reckless. I don't remember the
details, but somebody here will probably recognize the case.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

You didn't limit your statement to IFR flight plans that you filed.

You are correct. I did limit it to "before I take off", but I suppose
that doesn't quite pass muster here.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.