If you are looking for a fight...

Ed Rasimus wrote in message . ..
"Kilroy" wrote:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
Didn't take long to lower the level of discourse.

Are eee esss pee eee cee tee--just a little bit....

It is a two way street, buddy.
He needs a Valium.

Let's start out by acknowledging that WW II was a long time ago and
fortunately for most of us we haven't again seen a conflict of that
magnitude. That result may be partly attributable to the sacrifices
made by that generation. It's difficult to comprehend the involvement
of all aspects of society and the impact on folks who were involved.

We can be grateful that Art participates in the group, that he shares
his memories of his experiences and that he freely expresses his
opinions. I don't agree with everything he says and will confess that
occasionally I express that disagreement.

But, I do it with an explanation of my position and a respect for his.
Respect is definitely a two-way street and demonstrating respect isn't
just for the other guy, it reflects favorably on the respecter.

This ****ing contests regarding whose is bigger don't do much but
waste bandwidth. And, in short order we have a collection of anonymous
twits sharing their ignorance. Frankly that doesn't appeal to me.

Ed, most of the "anonymous twits" are none too anonymous, and I have
yet to read of where any of Art's recent detractors have expressed
anything but the utmost respect for *all* of those who served during
WWII, or for that matter at any other time. The only disrespect I have
readily observed is that on the part of Art himself, who continues to
denigrate the service of not only the millions of his fellow service
members from WWII who performed their duties, no matter how seemingly
trivial, with honor equal to (or exceeding) his own, but also that of
the countless other allied forces who were fighting long before we
even entered the war, not to mention his numerous attacks on those who
served during other periods. That Art has already taken your more
equitable comments as some kind of personal endorsement on your part
of his comments in these regards is evident from his response to this
same message; I'd hope that was not your intent.

Brooks



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (ret)
***"When Thunder Rolled:
*** An F-105 Pilot Over N. Vietnam"
*** from Smithsonian Books
ISBN: 1588341038

(ArtKramr) wrote:

I draw the line when someone who was never in the military, has no
combat expxerence, no hours on the air tells me what war was :"really like".

Can I see a citation for that, Art?

Who's doing that?


Billy

http://www.two--four.net/weblog.php

(BUFDRVR) wrote in message ...
There has been some talk of men who wanted combat but due to "timing" or
"luck"
they missed out. Well if you are in a unit that won't get into the fight,
just
try this. Go to your CO and say," Sir, I hear the 344th is moving out to the
ETO. I want to go with them. Here is my transfer request. Please sign it".
He
will immediately. After he signs it walk it through and you will go into
battle
with the 344th. Or of course you can just keep a low profille , keep your
mouth
shut, do nothing, then for the rest of your life you can always say " I
wanted
combat but timing and luck kept me out" and see if you can live with that.


Art, you really need to step out of the 1940's and into the 1960's (at least).
Every guy I know that has missed out on operations has done everything in their
power to get into the fight. Combat operations today is not World War Two,
1943. Not every B-52 crew was deployed for operations in Iraq, in fact some
were deployed to keep an eye on North Korea (no combat ensued there so their
service is not noteworthy or honorable by your standard). Not ever F-16CG unit
was deployed and the list goes on. Its all timing, luck and some skill to get
deployed for real world ops now a days. If it only took a request, you couldn't
meet a B-52 crewmember today with out combat time.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Back in the middle to late 60s there was a document you cold sign and
have enclosed in your personnel records that indicated that you were a
volunteer for a Viet Nam assignment. Several of my B-52 pilot friends
cross trained and made it to Nam in Helicopters, Fighters and as FACs,
etc. Three of them were killed in Helicopters. When I was promoted my
wife wanted to move into field grade housing, but I refused because I
thought I would be re-assigned shortly. Two years later I was still
there. I later found out that each SAC wing could freeze two IPs as
essential personnel not subject to re-assignment. I was frozen and
didn't know it, but later when we started flying ARC LITE missions
everyone got into the fray.

Gene Myers

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: "Billy Beck
Date: 7/8/03 8:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


(ArtKramr) wrote:

I draw the line when someone who was never in the military, has no
combat expxerence, no hours on the air tells me what war was :"really
like".

Can I see a citation for that, Art?

Who's doing that?


Billy


If you don't know you haven't been paying attention. And your attempt to have
me name the obvious names is nothing more than a weak attempt on your part to
rekindle the same flame wars again. You have failed again
..
Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

If you don't know you haven't been paying attention. And your attempt to
have
me name the obvious names is nothing more than a weak attempt on your part
to
rekindle the same flame wars again. You have failed again


I have been paying attention. Nobody's been doing that, there are no
obvious names. It's all in your head.

BUFDRVR wrote:

snip

Art, you really need to step out of the 1940's and into the 1960's (at least).
Every guy I know that has missed out on operations has done everything in their
power to get into the fight. Combat operations today is not World War Two,
1943. Not every B-52 crew was deployed for operations in Iraq, in fact some
were deployed to keep an eye on North Korea (no combat ensued there so their
service is not noteworthy or honorable by your standard). Not ever F-16CG unit
was deployed and the list goes on. Its all timing, luck and some skill to get
deployed for real world ops now a days. If it only took a request, you couldn't
meet a B-52 crewmember today with out combat time.

"They also serve, who only stand and wait."

The important thing is not who served in combat. What is
important the willingness to serve in combat. As long as there
is conflict, we will need people willing to fight.

David

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: David Lentz

"They also serve, who only stand and wait."

I don't think the company clerk equals a squadron commander. I don't think
that a mess hall orderly equals a Navigator. I don't think the corporal of
the guard equals a wing commander. I don't think that the morale, VD and
entertainment officer equals a bombardier. Are they all important? Sure. But
some are easily and instantly replaceable others are not. And some go out
knowng they may never come back, and others are comfortable on the surety of
the safety they enjoy. Your mileage may vary.

Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

wrote in message
...
On 8 Jul 2003 10:42:21 -0700, (buf3) wrote:

Back in the middle to late 60s there was a document you cold sign and
have enclosed in your personnel records that indicated that you were a
volunteer for a Viet Nam assignment.

For enlisted it was the basic dream sheet in 1966 and 1968 when I
filled them out. Orders would show volunteer or not.

The dream sheet still exists. At least it did in '97, when I got out. But it
only kicks in when you are eligible for an assignment.

If you're in the states, after the prescribed minimum time on station. Which
may be 2 or 3 years, whatever the current thought processes are.
Overseas, about 6-7 months before your current tour is up. 1, 2, 3, 4 years,
whatever you agreed to when you went over there.

Trying to get a running overseas assignment curtailed takes an act of god.

Out of 8 different bases, only once did I not get one of my 1st 3 choices.

Pete

"ArtKramr" wrote

I don't think the company clerk equals a squadron commander. I don't
think
that a mess hall orderly equals a Navigator. I don't think the corporal
of
the guard equals a wing commander. I don't think that the morale, VD and
entertainment officer equals a bombardier. Are they all important? Sure.
But
some are easily and instantly replaceable others are not. And some go out
knowng they may never come back, and others are comfortable on the surety
of
the safety they enjoy. Your mileage may vary.

In today's tactics of random S-S missiles, grenades, ambushes of rear
echelon troops, dormitory bombings, suicide bombers in Zodiac boats, erzatz
pregnant women filled with explosives, embassy bombings, RPG's launched from
civilian cars....there is no more "surety of safety" for anyone in the
military.

Pete

Subject: If you are looking for a fight...
From: "Pete"
Date: 7/8/03 7:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote

I don't think the company clerk equals a squadron commander. I don't
think
that a mess hall orderly equals a Navigator. I don't think the corporal
of
the guard equals a wing commander. I don't think that the morale, VD and
entertainment officer equals a bombardier. Are they all important? Sure.
But
some are easily and instantly replaceable others are not. And some go out
knowng they may never come back, and others are comfortable on the surety
of
the safety they enjoy. Your mileage may vary.

In today's tactics of random S-S missiles, grenades, ambushes of rear
echelon troops, dormitory bombings, suicide bombers in Zodiac boats, erzatz
pregnant women filled with explosives, embassy bombings, RPG's launched from
civilian cars....there is no more "surety of safety" for anyone in the
military.

Pete


But the odds are much better for some than others.And the idea that in the
military all are equal is nonsense.


Arthur Kramer
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer