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#31
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
"Roger" wrote in message
... No, CO2 does not poison you. Like the pillow over a head/face it can cut off the air, but it is not a poison. It only mechanically prevents you from breathing air with O2 in it. Actually, it does more than that. The CO2 level in your blood affects your breathing reflex, and while some elevation is what helps you know to take another breath, too much can interfere with your breathing in other ways. If anything, CO is more of a "mechanical blockage", because "all" it does is bind to the blood cells, preventing them from carrying O2. CO2 actually messes with your body's natural breathing control. I wouldn't really call either a "poison", but it seems to me that the words has been used pretty loosely by everyone involved in this thread. Nit-picking about whether either CO or CO2 seems fruitless. Pete |
#32
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
Roger wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:20:43 -0500, "Jeff Shirton" wrote: "B A R R Y" wrote in message ... Don't believe you have much of a case for CO 2 poisoning. It is CO that is the poison!!! Apparently you never saw Apollo 13. I think what he's trying to imply is that CO poisons, CO2 simply displaces breathable air. Carbon monoxide is poisonous. Carbon dioxide is poisonous. Indeed, the distinction you are trying to make doesn't apply, since CO "simply displaces breathable air" in hemoglobin. Both can eventually kill you, but in different ways. Yes, by *poisoning* you. No, CO2 does not poison you. Like the pillow over a head/face it can cut off the air, but it is not a poison. It only mechanically prevents you from breathing air with O2 in it. Remove the CO2 and you can breath just fine...if you can still breathe. Remove the CO and you still need treatment as the blood still will not cary O2. A poison works chemically on the body in one way or another. Fresh air and exercise are good for refreshing after CO2, but exercise can kill after CO exposure. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com IIRC CO complexes the hemoglobin leading to a clot. The damage is not reversible but after a lot of time in fresh air the body will clear out the damaged hemoglobin. That's much different than CO2. |
#33
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
"Jeff Shirton" wrote in message
If you don't believe me, simply do a Google search of "carbon dioxide" "poison", and see for yourself... OK. From that Google search: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/co2.html "Carbon monoxide CO, unlike CO2, is a bad poison. ... Carbon monoxide binds very strongly to the iron in the hemoglobin in the blood. ... Because carbon monoxide binds to hemoglobin so strongly, you can be poisoned by carbon monoxide even at very low concentrations..." http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/sci/A0810371.html "It [carbon dioxide] does not burn, and under normal conditions it is stable, inert and nontoxic. ... Although it [carbon dioxide] is not a poison, it can cause death by suffocation if inhaled in large amounts." http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/bull...995/nst13.html "Chemical asphyxiants - Carbon monoxide, hydrogen, cyanide, nitrites, hydrogen sulphides. ... Simple asphyxiants are physiolocigal inert. ... Victims exposed to them will suffer from lack of oxygen. Carbon dioxide and methane are classic examples of simple asphyxiant. Chemical asphyxiants, on the other hand, interfere with the body's ability to utilise oxygen, They either prevent oxygen delivery (such as carbon monoxide and hydrogen sulphide)..." There are many others saying that CO is a poison while CO2 is not. -- John T http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com ____________________ |
#34
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
Try searching on the terms "carbon dioxide poisoning" and
"Hypercapnia" instaid. CO2 is toxic but is nowhere near as toxic as CO. CO2 can act as a simple asphyxiant and kill by displacing oxygen or it can kill from its toxic effects. It's much more likely to kill by asphyxiation. It generally takes some unusual circumstances to encounter its toxic effects and it takes a fair amount of time for these effects to become dangerous. This is probably why it's not usually considered a poison, usually it will suffocate you long before it can poison you. CO will nearly always kill from its toxic effects rather than simple asphyxiation because there is rarely enough of it around to displace much oxygen in the atmosphere. CO2 poisoning is usually only a concern if you are breathing a canned atmosphere with plenty of oxygen but no way to get rid of the CO2. |
#35
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
On 2 Feb 2006 05:06:53 -0800, "Bryan Martin"
wrote: Try searching on the terms "carbon dioxide poisoning" and "Hypercapnia" instaid. CO2 is toxic but is nowhere near as toxic as CO. CO2 can act as a simple asphyxiant and kill by displacing oxygen or it can kill from its toxic effects. It's much more likely to kill by asphyxiation. It generally takes some unusual circumstances to encounter its toxic effects and it takes a fair amount of time for these effects to become dangerous. This is probably why it's not usually considered a poison, usually it will suffocate you long before it can poison you. CO will nearly always kill from its toxic effects rather than simple asphyxiation because there is rarely enough of it around to displace much oxygen in the atmosphere. CO2 poisoning is usually only a concern if you are breathing a canned atmosphere with plenty of oxygen but no way to get rid of the CO2. carbon monoxide is about 210 times as active in binding with hemoglobin as oxygen. carbon monoxide can react out all of your hemoglobin so that no oxygen transport occurs and you die of asphyxiation. (only about 10% of oxygen dissolves in plasma and that isnt enough to keep you alive) carbon dioxide in the blood forms carbonic acid and can alter the blood pH enough to denature enzyme reactions in the body. (a lot of the enzymes are curled up long molecules that are only chemically active when certain parts of molecular loops are in near proximity. when denatured through pH or temperature they straighten out and the chemical processes they are involved with simply stop.) Stealth pilot |
#36
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message ... snip carbon dioxide in the blood forms carbonic acid and can alter the blood pH enough to denature enzyme reactions in the body. (a lot of the enzymes are curled up long molecules that are only chemically active when certain parts of molecular loops are in near proximity. when denatured through pH or temperature they straighten out and the chemical processes they are involved with simply stop.) Stealth pilot I knew about the carbonic acid and the pH. I wasn't sure of the damage mechanism though. Very interesting. Thanks, Stealth. Joe Schneider 8437R ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#37
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Medal Winners: Air Traffic Control Tapes
It is CO that is the poison!!!
Read somewhere that there are no toxic substances, only toxic quantities. |
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