If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
Michael, Kilo Charlie and others, thanks for the info.
It looks like the air mattress is the best solution for me. Kilo Charlie's tank and bilge pump is elegant but it requires a pick-up truck. Does anybody have a specific recommendation for a air mattress and any modifications that it will need? Bill Daniels "Michael Stringfellow" wrote in message news:wqVjc.10615$6L3.3055@fed1read05... This is a common problem for us here in Arizona, with several fields we fly at being dry. Looking at our cross-country pilots, who fly ballasted most of the time, the water storage/transport methods fall into the following three categories 1) Tanks of various shapes and sizes (rectangular and cylindrical), usually mounted in the vehicle or truck bed and with capacities in the 50 to 100 gallon range. 2) Rigid plastic containers. The blue 7-gallon ones (available from Mal-Wart) are a good compromise between capacity and ease of lifting. 3) Inflatable plastic containers (air beds), usually roof-mounted. We drive our vehicles carrying the water up to the glider. The most common filling method is gravity, with 12V electric pumps the second most common. Most of use a vertical open-ended pressure-relief tube to avoid over-pressure. Several pilots evacuate their bags with vacuum pumps prior to filling them. Hope this helps Mike ASW 20 WA "Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:G1Vjc.39485$cF6.1713298@attbi_s04... I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport 50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes either. So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider? Bill Daniels |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
Todd:
I and a few others use an RV water pump that has a rate of around 2 US gallons a minute. Mike ASW 20 WA "Todd Pattist" wrote in message ... "Kilo Charlie" wrote: all you need to do is to fill the tank, connect the pump to a cigaretter lighter and begin filling the wings. If you need more details I'm be happy to answer them here or via private e-mail. What is your transfer rate with the electric pump? Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
"HL Falbaum" wrote in message news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53... In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons easily---enough for my '27B I just measured the top of my Grand Cherokee and it is 37" across between the roof rack rails and 57" long with the rack crossbars as far apart as possible. Do you remember which air mattress you use? BTW, I checked water beds and all I find are 84" long. Bill Daniels |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
"HL Falbaum" wrote in message news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53... In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons easily---enough for my '27B I'm rapidly coming around to your solution. My guess is that you are using the 'Coleman's Kid's Air Mattress' ($12 @ Wall-Mart) that is 28" x 59"x 6" which will hold about 40 gallons and neatly fits on the roof of the Grand Cherokee. However, somewhat belatedly, I just did the W&B on the Nimbus 2C with regard to water ballast. At the 1433 pound MTOW I will need 500 pounds of ballast or 60 gallons. The CG moves slightly forward from the current 80% aft position. (Now I know why the POH specifies 51 PSI in the main tire.) So, the Kids Mattress isn't going to do it with one trip to the water hole. Anybody know of a slightly larger waterbed/air mattress? Bill Daniels |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
I use a mattress as well with the same opening you mention.
Make an 1" copper tube adaptor to your hose and slip it in. It will not slide out under pressure unless you pull it out. Put a bit of lube on it to make it slide in. Also smooth copper tube end with fine emery cloth. Udo How do you connect to the air fittings with a water bed kit? My air mattresses all have a 1" diameter plastic opening without threads for rapid low pressure inflation and deflation (same as on my Camel-Back water bottle), and a smaller 1/4" or less air tube that you can blow into to top it off. The water bed fittings all seem to be threaded. Is yours different, or is there some way to connect to the large unthreaded air fitting? Todd Pattist - "WH" Ventus C (Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.) |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
In article G1Vjc.39485$cF6.1713298@attbi_s04, Bill Daniels
writes I Googled r.a.s and found posts about water beds, truck inner tubes and collapsible plastic cubes from Wal-Mart. The plastic cubes will transport 50 gallons and fit inside my Jeep Grand Cherokee but nothing else will fit and I don't want to unload the Jeep just for this chore. Full 10 gallon water containers weigh more than 90 pounds and I don't like lifting that much to pour it into the wing. I don't like water beds and inner tubes either. So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider? Bill Daniels 25 litre plastic drums. I can carry 4 of these in the back of my Volvo. We have a hand pump, but its a difficult messy job, so I built a stand for a BIG funnel which we can connect to the water ports on out DG202. Haven't had a chance to try it yet. -- Mike Lindsay |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
To be specific
I use a "Ozark Trail" brand twin size air mattress from Wal-Mart part Num 68957 75" x 37.5" x 7.5" inflated size The large "exhaust" valve has screw-on thread that fits water bed filling kit. It has a velour side for non scratching of car top. It is nowhere near full at 40 gal, as I routinely fill to 50 "just in case". I have had occasional "disconnects" in the line and lost some. I think it would hold more--Let's see----75 x 37.5 x 7.5 = 21,093.75 cu in or 12.207 cu ft. At 7.48 gal per cu ft that's 91 gal. I put the hose end under the rear crossbar, and drape the fwd end over the fwd crossbar. The water flows nicely till nearly empty, then I must fold the forward part to the rear and so on. The number from the bar code is 78257 68957 I bought a spare and I am reading from the package. As I recall, the cost was less than 25 USD at Wal-Mart. Hope this helps -- Hartley Falbaum ASW 27B "KF" USA "Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:3hckc.16977$RE1.1449581@attbi_s54... "HL Falbaum" wrote in message news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53... In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons easily---enough for my '27B I just measured the top of my Grand Cherokee and it is 37" across between the roof rack rails and 57" long with the rack crossbars as far apart as possible. Do you remember which air mattress you use? BTW, I checked water beds and all I find are 84" long. Bill Daniels |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
Todd.....it depends upon what bilge pump you put in.....they run from
something like 200 to 600 gallons per hour. I have a 360gph which seems about right wrt not pushing it in too fast but fast enough that I can fill each wing in around 5-10 minutes (9lbs vs gross). Also I wanted to note that the tank fits in the back end of a Ford Explorer or Expedition with all the seats up and with room to spare and does not require a truck.....at least if you are in the US. I know that some countries are more conscientious re fuel economy and therefore have smaller vehicles and so it would not fit in a Mini for example! Casey Lenox KC Phoenix |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
"Bill Daniels" wrote in message news:Z%dkc.17643$lz5.1406385@attbi_s53... "HL Falbaum" wrote in message news:GjXjc.9465$lz5.929079@attbi_s53... In spite of your preference, I have been using a single bed camping air mattress from Wal-Mart for years. I put it on top of my Jeep Grand Cherokee and fill with gravity. Need a water bed filling kit to attach hose to the receptacle. Roll it up when done and it's out of the way. Holds 40 gallons easily---enough for my '27B I'm rapidly coming around to your solution. My guess is that you are using the 'Coleman's Kid's Air Mattress' ($12 @ Wall-Mart) that is 28" x 59"x 6" which will hold about 40 gallons and neatly fits on the roof of the Grand Cherokee. However, somewhat belatedly, I just did the W&B on the Nimbus 2C with regard to water ballast. At the 1433 pound MTOW I will need 500 pounds of ballast or 60 gallons. The CG moves slightly forward from the current 80% aft position. (Now I know why the POH specifies 51 PSI in the main tire.) So, the Kids Mattress isn't going to do it with one trip to the water hole. Anybody know of a slightly larger waterbed/air mattress? Bill Daniels Hey Bill, Maybe buy two of 'em and stck 'em up. 'Course you could try puttinng on 50-100 pounds, then you wouldn't need so much ballast. Cheers!, Pete (Still having withdrawal pains) |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
Bill Daniels wrote:
So, bright r.a.s people, how do you neatly and easily transport ballast water to the glider if the gliderport doesn't have a tanker or water hoses on the ramp? Once you get it there, how do you get it into the glider? What infrastructure does your gliderport have? If there is not a tap close enough at your local site, can you bribe the management to get one installed? Get the other single seater pilots to contribute to the costs. I always carry a long (about 40m) 1/2" diameter garden hose in the trailer and a collection of tap fittings (about 6) of different sizes. Then I tow the glider with the one man reverse tow kit as close as I can to a tap, select the required tap fitting, unwind the hose pipe and "full it up". Winding up the hose afterwards is the biggest job. (It is good manners to move the glider away from the tap ASAP when you tanked up, as you are probably in somebody's way - usually the pilot in the queue behind you). When I had the Nimbus II I put the hose straight into the ballast tank opening on the top of the wing. You have to full the wing supported with the wing wheel first. I used a stop watch to time the fulling time to get an estimate of how much water had gone in. This helps to get the same amount of water in each wing. (But it was not a problem taking off if the balance was not perfect). Another approach is to full the tanks 'till they overflow, then dump water for a timed release to get down to the required loading. This can be done during tow or after release if your situation allows you to take off with full tanks. Just make sure you can't pressurise the wing tank. This will cause expensive damage, very quickly. Putting a 3/4" hose into a S-H filling port might not leave enough room for the overflow to get out fast enough if you forget to stop the hose. A 1/2" hose is safe. Now I fly an LS3. (Easier on the back) But is has bags not tanks, so I use a funnel with a hose sized to plug into the dump vent on the bottom of the wing. The funnel has a stand which holds it about 300mm above hight of the cockpit. I put the garden hose into the top of the funnel. The main function of this kit is to protect the wing from over pressure. With the LS3 I have to hold the heavy wing in the air when I start fulling the 2nd wing. In theory you need two people for this. I can do it on my own - but it splashes a little. I don't bother to suck the air out of the bags before filling, and I never quite get them 100% full but that does not matter - I get enough water in to reach my desired wing loading. Keep your filling kit simple. The faster you get the water in, the sooner you can launch and the more distance you can cover in the day. Also, the easier it is to full the glider, the more often you will use water and the better your "flying with water" skills will become. If you only use water on those very special days, you won't be ready to extract maximum advantage from the extra wing loading. I usually take off with more water than the conditions warrent and dump some when airborne. Test dump a full load of water on the ground while watching carefully and timing with a stop watch. Then you know how many seconds it takes to dump all the water, and you get an idea how "linear" the dump rate is by watching the outflow. Also note if both tanks dump at the same rate - if there is a big discrepancy the dump valves may need maintenance. Then count seconds while dumping in the air so as to have an idea how much water is in board. It may be worth doing one full from known capacity containers. Then you can establish how much water you tanks can actually hold and confirm if they both hold the same volume. Ian PS: The Nimbus II flies best when the water overflowing from the filler valves and freezes into an icicle on the top surface of the wing - because it's sitting at 18000' :-) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Induction System Water Problem | Mike Spera | Owning | 1 | January 30th 05 05:29 AM |
Bad publicity | David Starer | Soaring | 18 | March 8th 04 03:57 PM |
"I Want To FLY!"-(Youth) My store to raise funds for flying lessons | Curtl33 | General Aviation | 7 | January 9th 04 11:35 PM |
Water Cooled Jet Engines: a possibillity then and now? | The Enlightenment | Military Aviation | 3 | December 18th 03 09:41 AM |
I wish I'd never got into this... | Kevin Neave | Soaring | 32 | September 19th 03 12:18 PM |