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#41
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Nothing good about Ethanol
Kick some A-rab ass....
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#42
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Nothing good about Ethanol
wrote in message ... Dan Luke wrote: wrote: Homeland Security and the invasion of Afghanistan were direct results of 9/11. Duh! And 9/11 was a result of what? What is the root reason our nation is so intimately involved with these scum? Wild eyed, Islamic religious extremists who are still fighting the Medieval Crusades against the infidels, i.e. us. BTW, care to guess which country exported the most crude oil to the US in March of 2006? I don't have to guess; I know. Care to guess of the top 5 crude oil exporters how many can be considered to be Islamic? Which ones of the top five are governed by stable democracies? What military action is the U. S. prepared to take in the ones controlled by nuts and criminals--besides the one controlled by infidel-hating religious fanatics, I mean? Does this seem like a long term, secure, affordable energy situation to you? -- Dan C172RG at BFM |
#43
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Nothing good about Ethanol
In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote: The same military is used to protect the land and people who would grow corn for ethanol. ...and everything else *at home*. But how much extra expense do we entail because we must protect our foreign oil supply? actually, a lot of effort goes into protecting the sea lanes for all trade, not just oil. -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#45
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Nothing good about Ethanol
On Fri, 2 Jun 2006 09:27:39 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote: ("Dan Luke" wrote) I seriously doubt we would be at war with terrorism instigated mostly by Arabs if imported oil were not a vital national interest that has required a military presence in the Middle East for decades. The cost of Homeland Security and the campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan should count in the price of gasoline, IMO. East Timor and Rwanda come to mind. Thousands of Mini (micro) Nuclear Power Plants, for a variety of uses (all of the same design) is my answer. (1) Micro-NPP + (1) Ethanol Plant ...corn, sugar beets, hemp, whatever. Cost? - This one's too easy. g [Montblack's reply after linked newspaper story] Minneapolis [Red] Star-Tribune story today (Friday) http://www.startribune.com/462/story/468717.html And they want to have all electric cars on the highways. As I've said before. We don't have the infrastructure to handled much more load even when using real time load management which is decades off. This is a good example of being unable to use a non polluting, alternative energy source even when it is in place. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#46
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Nothing good about Ethanol
On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:01:37 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote: "Newps" wrote: Think about it logically. Besides, in order to be "energy independent" with Ethanol alone, we would haqve to plant corn on every arcre of farmland in this country.... forget growing any actual food. Bah, we've got millions of acres here in Montana, any wheat producing state will, that are not farmed right now because it won't support sweet corn. There is a *lot* of field corn grown in Michigan and the Mid West. In both Michigan and Wisconsin a lot of that is used to feed dairy cattle. We also have large farms producing cattle for beef. But it will grow the field corn that you use to produce ethanol quite nicely. And the only reason we're talking about ethanol from corn is the mighty U. S. corn lobby. Other crops--sugar beets up North, sugar cane down South--can give much higher ethanol yields/acre. Well, we are limited to how many acres of sugar beets we can grow and they bring a premium price compared to corn. As a SWAG I say we might be able to come up with another 15% in acreage planted to beets up here in the frozen north. We might get more alcohol and we might not. I don't know what the net energy yield would be, but it most likely would be more expensive than corn alcohol. I don't know what the yield would be from Sorghum. Too bad, we as a country, have such a fixation against growing commercial hemp. (not the recreational kind) Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#47
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Nothing good about Ethanol
On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 10:55:05 GMT, "Guy Byars"
wrote: Most of the stations in the Cincinnati metro area are now selling gasoline with 5-6% ethanol. My regular supplier didn't sell gas with ethanol until Try and find on in Michigan that doesn't have Ethanol and it's probably going to be 10% Ethanol. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#48
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Nothing good about Ethanol
"Roger" wrote: Even mainstream science will have pro and con. Although there has been a shift to accepting first global warming and the accepting mankind's contribution as being significant there is still a strong camp that say it aint so. Cite for the latter, please? -- Dan "Hell hath no fury like a noncombatant." -Mitchell Coffey |
#49
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Nothing good about Ethanol
Roger wrote:
: As I've said before. We don't have the infrastructure to handled much : more load even when using real time load management which is decades : off. Pray forgive a non-aviation related aside. I've been working in the electrical distribution industry for a long time. My company makes real-time load flow profiling equipment (see your transformer loads LIVE on the internet!), and real-time load management hardware, software, and systems (amoung other hardware & software). We have several programs on-line TODAY with real-time load management. There is a fundamental problem with real-time load management. No one will pay for it. The consumer says, "you want to be able to shut off MY airconditioner when it's hot out, and you want ME to pay for that privilege? Drop dead." The utility says, "My income comes from spinning meters. You want ME to reduce my income, and you want ME to pay for that privilege? Get lost." Attitudes are slowly changing. It costs $billions to build new generation plants, and takes at least 10 years - probably 25 is more like it. If the utility can defer generation construction it has a high value. (I know that utilities no longer own generation directly but the concept holds.) PS, in this widely spread out country purely electric cars are not useful until they have the same performance as gasoline cars, particularly in their recharge time. My gasoline car recharges in 10 minutes and goes 450 miles per charge. Each charge costs $55. It's really pretty cheap, all things considered. : This is a good example of being unable to use a non polluting, : alternative energy source even when it is in place. With electrical generation primarilly coal-powered in this country, changing to electric powered anything moves the polution center to the power plant, and centralizes the place where pollution control needs to be applied. This is good in many ways, because it's easier to keep one big engine tuned than millions of smaller ones. -- Aaron C. |
#50
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Nothing good about Ethanol
On 2-Jun-2006, Roger wrote: Even mainstream science will have pro and con. Although there has been a shift to accepting first global warming and the accepting mankind's contribution as being significant there is still a strong camp that say it aint so. Hogwash! -Elliott Drucker |
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