15 Hour Wonders

The 15 Hr Wonder you bemoan had to pass the same CFI-G Checkride using the same PTS Standards that any other CFI-G Applicant has to pass. The point that low time CFIs are Instructing low time students is valid but has been the reality in power instruction for decades. If it was creating large problems it would have manifested itself long ago. In the Power world, Instructing is generally a way to build flight time after which the pilot moves on to less stressful, more lucrative assignments.

For me, the CFI Initial Checkride (1990) required more intense preparation than for my ATP (1993) and later Type Ratings on a jet airliners. As a very recent CFI-G Applicant (2019), I approached it with the same level of preparation as my initial so long ago. Do I know everything about gliders? No. Do you?

As Tony pointed out, the 15 hr. requirement is PIC, which means glider time AFTER certification as a Private or Commercial Glider pilot. Unless this low glider time pilot has access to a modern high performance ship, they may have had a lot of flights to get that 15 hrs.

New CFIGs tend to be overly conservative and that compensates somewhat for their experience level. They understand the science, working on teaching techniques and methods. There will always be ‘surprises’ irregardless of the experience level of the instructor. No pattern of concern has been established due to instructor experience level, or we would have been made aware by the Masters gatekeepers Knauff, Compton, and others.
New instructors spool up pretty quick, and the students desire not to die goes a long way.
I’ve solo a few 14 year olds on Harris Hill and elsewhere, and that always amaze me. I saw Star Wars with 7 of them.
I was a brand new instructor from Florida entrusted with their lives. I yelled, they soloed. It was tough. Fun tough.
What a hoot.
They all made it back to the field...but I, their instructor...landed a ride in the valley.
They yelled, I stood at attention. Others laugh.

R

Fake news

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:20:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Fake news

Spot on.

Villifying pilots who legally meet the FAA requirements and pass the exam just adds to our burden trying to stem our declining CFI-G population.

To become a CFI-G you have to have already earned a Commercial Glider Pilot Certificate - not a gimme by any means. Having an CFI-A decreases the minimum requirements a little bit, but it doesn't change the Practical Test Standards that have to be met. CFI-G's don't want to sign off someone who isn't going to pass the exam and DPE's don't award flight instructor certificates unless they are confident the applicant is competent.

In my case, I added on my Comm-Glider four-and-a-half years ago to go along with my ATP, 5 Type Ratings, Comm-ASEL, Comm-Rotorcraft, CFI-A and CFI-R (with around two thousand hours instructing) and 21,000 hours of flying. And, I still flew gliders for four years to gain the experience, not hours, I felt I needed to be an effective instructor. The experience has made me a better glider pilot overall, so it was worth it. Too bad there's no place to use it around here.

Let's talk about experience vs attitude, shall we?
In the past four years I've seen our local senior glider instructors land short of the runway on a road with a student, send a student for their first solo without their student pilot certificate or logbook endorsement, allow a minor to continue soloing well past the expiration of his solo endorsement, continue flying a glider they declared should be grounded and justifying doing so by saying they limit their max speed to 80kts, look the other way when someone (not a CFI-G) decided to autotow a known marginal pre-solo student so he could do some "landings" and later look the other way when that same student came back from a solo flight and recounted how he got himself into a spin and somehow survived when he, admittedly, used all of the wrong recovery procedures, and one who went around the patch only one time with a private pilot who was out of 90-day currency to carry passengers and declare her legal to do so without the full three landing required by FARs.

Being long in the tooth with a thick glider logbook doesn't endow you with superpowers or forgive poor judgement. Having the right attitude and applying one's previous experience flying and instructing in other types of heavier than air flying machines makes a huge difference in the equation.

I trust those endorsing CFI-G applicants and the DPEs to be the gatekeepers and to have all of us in the sport of soaring in their minds when they sign off a new CFI-G.

Can I have an AMEN?

Paul A.
CFI-A (1986), CFI-R (1993), and CFI-G (2019)
Jupiter, FL

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 6:14:14 PM UTC-5, Paul Agnew wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:20:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Fake news

Spot on.

Villifying pilots who legally meet the FAA requirements and pass the exam just adds to our burden trying to stem our declining CFI-G population.

To become a CFI-G you have to have already earned a Commercial Glider Pilot Certificate - not a gimme by any means. Having an CFI-A decreases the minimum requirements a little bit, but it doesn't change the Practical Test Standards that have to be met. CFI-G's don't want to sign off someone who isn't going to pass the exam and DPE's don't award flight instructor certificates unless they are confident the applicant is competent.

In my case, I added on my Comm-Glider four-and-a-half years ago to go along with my ATP, 5 Type Ratings, Comm-ASEL, Comm-Rotorcraft, CFI-A and CFI-R (with around two thousand hours instructing) and 21,000 hours of flying. And, I still flew gliders for four years to gain the experience, not hours, I felt I needed to be an effective instructor. The experience has made me a better glider pilot overall, so it was worth it. Too bad there's no place to use it around here.

Let's talk about experience vs attitude, shall we?
In the past four years I've seen our local senior glider instructors land short of the runway on a road with a student, send a student for their first solo without their student pilot certificate or logbook endorsement, allow a minor to continue soloing well past the expiration of his solo endorsement, continue flying a glider they declared should be grounded and justifying doing so by saying they limit their max speed to 80kts, look the other way when someone (not a CFI-G) decided to autotow a known marginal pre-solo student so he could do some "landings" and later look the other way when that same student came back from a solo flight and recounted how he got himself into a spin and somehow survived when he, admittedly, used all of the wrong recovery procedures, and one who went around the patch only one time with a private pilot who was out of 90-day currency to carry passengers and declare her legal to do so without the full three landing required by FARs.

Being long in the tooth with a thick glider logbook doesn't endow you with superpowers or forgive poor judgement. Having the right attitude and applying one's previous experience flying and instructing in other types of heavier than air flying machines makes a huge difference in the equation.

I trust those endorsing CFI-G applicants and the DPEs to be the gatekeepers and to have all of us in the sport of soaring in their minds when they sign off a new CFI-G.

Can I have an AMEN?

Paul A.
CFI-A (1986), CFI-R (1993), and CFI-G (2019)
Jupiter, FL

Agnew, get a life, you could not even stay behind the tow plane and blamed it on you daughters hair. Glad you took the the bait. Bob

Bob Youngblood said:

Agnew, get a life, you could not even stay behind the tow plane and blamed it on you daughters hair. Glad you took the the bait. Bob

Standard response. You need a new line, Bob. And, internet trolling does not make you look better.

So, you're calling ME the 15 hour wonder? That's hilarious...and a bit sad to see from you - a founder and leader of the Treasure Coast Soaring Club. Have you seen my logbook? Do you have any idea of what I did to prepare for my checkride and where I've flown over the past four-plus years? Getting my CFI-G somewhere else instead of with your club must have really stuck in your craw for some reason. Don't take it personally.

So, kiting...let's put it out there. The lesson I learned is a badge of honor. Two years ago I briefly kited when I looked away from the towplane for a second to check on where I would go if the rope broke. (West side of Quad Lakes...empty lots...) I immediately corrected and was reaching for the release, but had the towplane in sight and was able to easily get back into position. As soon as I landed, I went right over and spoke with the tow pilot to apologize and to see if he had any feedback for me. He said he just thought I was letting my daughter fly and said he sees worse with students. (As you know, this was her first flight with me after her cancer surgery to remove her knee. Thanks for using her for your baseless vendetta.) I spoke with our "chief flight instructor" about it, got some pointers, and it was put to bed by everyone else but you for some reason. It was a great lesson learned for me. I commented on her mane of hair and how it needed to be tied back so I could see the panel, but I never blamed the kiting on it. That was on me. I admit my mistakes and learn from them.

You must have been satisfied at the time since you pressed me to give a number of revenue rides soon after. Money talks, I guess.

Now, I sure you don't want all of the Treasure Coast Soaring Club dirty laundry aired out here, so I'll just wish you well with the upcoming annual club meeting and hope to see TCSC turn the corner some day.

Paul

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 7:39:08 PM UTC-5, Paul Agnew wrote:
Bob Youngblood said:

Agnew, get a life, you could not even stay behind the tow plane and blamed it on you daughters hair. Glad you took the the bait. Bob

Standard response. You need a new line, Bob. And, internet trolling does not make you look better.

So, you're calling ME the 15 hour wonder? That's hilarious...and a bit sad to see from you - a founder and leader of the Treasure Coast Soaring Club. Have you seen my logbook? Do you have any idea of what I did to prepare for my checkride and where I've flown over the past four-plus years? Getting my CFI-G somewhere else instead of with your club must have really stuck in your craw for some reason. Don't take it personally.

So, kiting...let's put it out there. The lesson I learned is a badge of honor. Two years ago I briefly kited when I looked away from the towplane for a second to check on where I would go if the rope broke. (West side of Quad Lakes...empty lots...) I immediately corrected and was reaching for the release, but had the towplane in sight and was able to easily get back into position. As soon as I landed, I went right over and spoke with the tow pilot to apologize and to see if he had any feedback for me. He said he just thought I was letting my daughter fly and said he sees worse with students.. (As you know, this was her first flight with me after her cancer surgery to remove her knee. Thanks for using her for your baseless vendetta.) I spoke with our "chief flight instructor" about it, got some pointers, and it was put to bed by everyone else but you for some reason. It was a great lesson learned for me. I commented on her mane of hair and how it needed to be tied back so I could see the panel, but I never blamed the kiting on it. That was on me. I admit my mistakes and learn from them.

You must have been satisfied at the time since you pressed me to give a number of revenue rides soon after. Money talks, I guess.

Now, I sure you don't want all of the Treasure Coast Soaring Club dirty laundry aired out here, so I'll just wish you well with the upcoming annual club meeting and hope to see TCSC turn the corner some day.

Paul

Yes Alfred, you are a 15 hour wonder. Probably 12 taking away those hours that you logged in the back seat of a reputable guys ship! Maybe I should post all those letters to the club that you sent. shall I go any further? So glad that you are gone, wishing you well in your new flying site. Bob

Is everyone enjoying this, yet? See the pattern?

You got me. My first name is Alfred. It was my father's name and I've was teased about it back when I was a child. You're the first adult to try it.

Feel free to post any of the emails I've sent regarding the club when I was tasked with trying to help organize the chaos. Hell, I may post them just for posterity.

Remember, I was recruited to go back on the board last year to help straighten things out and left after being duly elected when you orchestrated a revote to get yourself back on the board under dubious pretenses. This is a hobby - something we do for fun and I let you have your party without my help and to eliminate the growing liability. Newsflash - I just turned down another request this week to come get back on the board with the same hollow promise that you were taking a lesser role. Fool me once...

Post your own emails while you're at it. I'm sure everyone will find them entertaining.

Finally, I caution you against making false statements about my experience. You're patently wrong and are fabricating your assertions out of thin air with the intent to slander me. It's petty and embarrassing to watch.

Alfred "Alfie" Agnew

Respectfully - could we please get back on topic and leave the personal vendettas to a private venue?
Matt

I recall there was a fatal accident in Hawaii a decade ago or so with a very low time, young instructor who was only flying for few weeks. Very little experience but met the minimum the FAA requires. IIRC he did not manage to recover from a spin.
I don’t have a link but I am sure one can search for it in the NTSB site.

Ramy