Getting a little sick of it all

50-60 hours a year is not that much, last year I flew around 200 hours, and the
year before was almost 250, I am at about 35 hours so far this year, several
flights have had to be canceled because of weather but as soon as summer hits I
will fly allot more.


Robert Bates wrote:

I agree with Jay. Anyone who won't let a mechanic look at it is hiding
something. Just thinking about it, 8000 hours for a 28 year old airplane is
285 hours per year. Everything I have ever read has said that a highly
active pilot only flies 50-60 hours per year.

Good Luck in your search.

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:iix1c.470784$na.1115474@attbi_s04...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not
trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to
be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic
looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves
to
be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"MRQB" wrote in message ...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.


I saw this coming when you posted that you had cash and were looking
for a "quick sale". As I recall, I mentioned something to the effect
that this would seem very attractive to junk dealers. To them, a
quick sale means that you will not dig deep as far as inspections and
paperwork are concerned.

It sounds to me like you are taking your time to make a thoroughly
informed purchasing decision. People selling junk do not take kindly
to this. Too bad for them. Don't get worked up about it. Don't
argue with them on the phone. Just walk away. The moment a seller
tells you that you can't have your independent A&P inspect the
aircraft, just thank him for his time and walk away. This is not a
person from which you want to be buying an aircraft.

Ultimately, patience is the key to getting a good one. It takes a
lot of time, looking at a lot of junk, to find a good reliable
airplane that is reasonably priced (unless you're very lucky).

It took me six months to find my first airplane and 3 months to find
my second. In both cases, I stumbled across my eventual purchase
before it was advertised. Also in both cases, I spent most of the
total time looking at airplanes that were eventually found to be
unsuitable for one reason or another. It's the price you have to pay
to weed out the not-so-great airplanes from the great ones. It is not
a quick process and IMHO, not a particularly enjoyable experience to
have to repeatedly waste time wading through logbooks of aircraft you
won't purchase.

Why bother? I have several friends and acquaintences that didn't do
a thorough job in the weeding process and had to live with the
results. For the most part, they regretted it for a long time (and
many paychecks). A few became disenchanted with ownership and sold
out at a loss, never to return to ownership. So, just have some
patience with the process and do not buy anything that you didn't
thoroughly check out. Some of the scariest planes I ever saw had sexy
new paint jobs and sparkling interiors.

Good Luck,

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Looks like The Federal Government Is going to get $3,700 off me for Capital
Gains I would rather give that money to a private party on a reinvestment
than the Federal Goverment.


"John Galban" wrote in message
m...
"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.


I saw this coming when you posted that you had cash and were looking
for a "quick sale". As I recall, I mentioned something to the effect
that this would seem very attractive to junk dealers. To them, a
quick sale means that you will not dig deep as far as inspections and
paperwork are concerned.

It sounds to me like you are taking your time to make a thoroughly
informed purchasing decision. People selling junk do not take kindly
to this. Too bad for them. Don't get worked up about it. Don't
argue with them on the phone. Just walk away. The moment a seller
tells you that you can't have your independent A&P inspect the
aircraft, just thank him for his time and walk away. This is not a
person from which you want to be buying an aircraft.

Ultimately, patience is the key to getting a good one. It takes a
lot of time, looking at a lot of junk, to find a good reliable
airplane that is reasonably priced (unless you're very lucky).

It took me six months to find my first airplane and 3 months to find
my second. In both cases, I stumbled across my eventual purchase
before it was advertised. Also in both cases, I spent most of the
total time looking at airplanes that were eventually found to be
unsuitable for one reason or another. It's the price you have to pay
to weed out the not-so-great airplanes from the great ones. It is not
a quick process and IMHO, not a particularly enjoyable experience to
have to repeatedly waste time wading through logbooks of aircraft you
won't purchase.

Why bother? I have several friends and acquaintences that didn't do
a thorough job in the weeding process and had to live with the
results. For the most part, they regretted it for a long time (and
many paychecks). A few became disenchanted with ownership and sold
out at a loss, never to return to ownership. So, just have some
patience with the process and do not buy anything that you didn't
thoroughly check out. Some of the scariest planes I ever saw had sexy
new paint jobs and sparkling interiors.

Good Luck,

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Looks like The Federal Government Is going to get $3,700 off me for
Capital
Gains I would rather give that money to a private party on a reinvestment
than the Federal Goverment.



Why is this relevent? How is buying an airplane going to defer your gains?

Mike
MU-2


"John Galban" wrote in message
m...
"MRQB" wrote in message
...
Yes, its getting a little frustrating I think I am going to quit
looking
for
a while just to let my nerves settle a bit.


I saw this coming when you posted that you had cash and were looking
for a "quick sale". As I recall, I mentioned something to the effect
that this would seem very attractive to junk dealers. To them, a
quick sale means that you will not dig deep as far as inspections and
paperwork are concerned.

It sounds to me like you are taking your time to make a thoroughly
informed purchasing decision. People selling junk do not take kindly
to this. Too bad for them. Don't get worked up about it. Don't
argue with them on the phone. Just walk away. The moment a seller
tells you that you can't have your independent A&P inspect the
aircraft, just thank him for his time and walk away. This is not a
person from which you want to be buying an aircraft.

Ultimately, patience is the key to getting a good one. It takes a
lot of time, looking at a lot of junk, to find a good reliable
airplane that is reasonably priced (unless you're very lucky).

It took me six months to find my first airplane and 3 months to find
my second. In both cases, I stumbled across my eventual purchase
before it was advertised. Also in both cases, I spent most of the
total time looking at airplanes that were eventually found to be
unsuitable for one reason or another. It's the price you have to pay
to weed out the not-so-great airplanes from the great ones. It is not
a quick process and IMHO, not a particularly enjoyable experience to
have to repeatedly waste time wading through logbooks of aircraft you
won't purchase.

Why bother? I have several friends and acquaintences that didn't do
a thorough job in the weeding process and had to live with the
results. For the most part, they regretted it for a long time (and
many paychecks). A few became disenchanted with ownership and sold
out at a loss, never to return to ownership. So, just have some
patience with the process and do not buy anything that you didn't
thoroughly check out. Some of the scariest planes I ever saw had sexy
new paint jobs and sparkling interiors.

Good Luck,

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

I'm not defending this guy but the knife cuts both ways. When I was selling
my cherokee 140 (a plane with damage history of which I was up front about),
I let potential buyers take it to their mechanics and it always worked out
the same. They'd come back and say "my mechanic said this and that so come
down 5k or I don't want it." That wouldn't have even been bad had they come
back with something reasonable or even consistant. Anyway, after 2-3 times
of that you get reluctant to go through it again.

Ultimately you have to realize that you're buying a 25-30 year old machine
which is almost always going to have something wrong with it. That said, it
still sounds like you made the right decision. Besides you should be
looking at cherokees not those high wing monstrosities ;-)


-Brian
N33431


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:iix1c.470784$na.1115474@attbi_s04...
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I
just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust
my
mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my
self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be
an
airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.

Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic
looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves to
be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

How about a side discussion about which are the worst

Arrogant Sellers
or
Tire Kicking Buyers.

I've been on both sides a few times, and BOY there are some LULU's out
there!

Rich

Jay Honeck wrote:

I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just
had a guy refuse to let my mechanic do a pre buy said he could not trust

my

mechanic to give an honest opinion and that if I cannot decide for my self
if I wanted it or not then I don't need an airplane and don't need to be

an

airplane owner or a pilot with poor decision making skills.


Yeah, I've run into a couple of sellers who didn't want my mechanic looking
at their planes.

I immediately assumed they were hiding something, and told 'em to pound
salt. But don't worry -- they are probably hiding something anyway, so
you've lost nothing by walking away.

IMHO, anyone who buys from someone like this is an idiot, and deserves to be
parted from his or her money. Caveat emptor.

How about a side discussion about which are the worst

Arrogant Sellers
or
Tire Kicking Buyers.

Well, I've only sold one plane -- and that one sold to our best friends!
Hard to complain about that...

Sellers, though, I've seen some real pips. One older gentleman in
particular was selling his baby 182, and wouldn't dicker a nickel. Any
offer less than his asking price was met with insulted indignation. He gave
no thought to making a counter offer, cuz he thought his bird was worth 20%
more than every other 182.

Supposedly he was a successful local businessman, but he apparently had no
idea how "bargaining" works.

Of course, we walked. And, of course, he eventually sold it for much less
than his asking price, after the "price bubble" burst a couple of years ago.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I know of one elderly gentleman who has an old Piper Colt for sale. He has
kept records of every dime he has spent on his plane, has receipts and full
documentation. He has the idea that he should recover all "investments"
other than fuel, including every nut, bolt, and hairpin that he's had to
replace on his airplane, and has priced it accordingly.

I wish him luck.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

If he's had it long enough, it may well be a deal at that price. My Six has
doubled in value since I bought it 9 years ago. That number is not far off
from my "investment". As investments go, the airplane has performed quite a
bit better than my market holdings, and I've been able to use it too!

Jim wrote:

I know of one elderly gentleman who has an old Piper Colt for sale. He has
kept records of every dime he has spent on his plane, has receipts and full
documentation. He has the idea that he should recover all "investments"
other than fuel, including every nut, bolt, and hairpin that he's had to
replace on his airplane, and has priced it accordingly.

I wish him luck.
--
Jim Burns III

Remove "nospam" to reply

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

In article ,
MRQB wrote:
I am getting sick and tired of rude, arrogant, sellers funny thing I just

I ran into some real nuts while I was looking. I finally bought my
plane from a real nice guy. Keep looking, you'll find the right seller
and the right plane. Look at it this way -- when a jerk tries to sell
you a dog, you'll have double warning to stay away, and no qualms about
hanging up on him!

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/