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#11
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
On 16 Apr 2007 07:59:09 -0700, "Denny" wrote:
In retrospect, I also wonder what the insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong? Tom We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins. Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the duration of that listed flight... Yup! The form has to be signed off, after inspecting it, by an IA or A&E stating the aircraft is airworthy for that flight. I've done a number of ferry flights like that. Just ask your insurrance carrier if in doubt. I've not had one say no, yet. denny |
#12
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
On Apr 16, 3:32 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Denny wrote: In retrospect, I also wonder what the insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong? Tom We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins. Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the duration of that listed flight... Maybe not. Every policy I've had stated that the airplane must comply with its standard airworthiness certificate. If it's out of annual, it's out of compliance. A special airworthiness certificate (represented by the Ferry Permit) is not the same as the standard airworthiness certificate. At least according to the aviation insurance policies I've had experience with. I've made flights under ferry permits and in all cases, the insurance companies had to approve the flight and fax a waiver. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) All of you raise very valid issues and there is abit of debate of exactly how many forms, permits, and signatures are required when "ferrying" a plane that has airworthy issues flagged. So I go back to my original post...... You can either A) "suck it up" and let the 1st shop do the work, OR B) go thru the process that we both described with ferry permits, etc. But if you choose B, in addition to the hassles of permits, signatures, reviews, etc., you have to ask yourself whether taking it someplace else will really make enough of a difference to make all those time-consuming hassles worthwhile? In the end, will you save $50 or 50%?? In our case, we figured we save $50 not 50% so it wasn't worth the hassle. --Jeff |
#13
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:41:07 -0700, JB wrote:
My major point is that once items are flagged as unairworthy during an inspection, the comparison between cars and planes no longer applies and the hassle-factor goes up considerably. This is only true if the previous annual has expired. It opens up an interesting policy decision. Do you do your annuals "late" (ie. at the last possible minute, perhaps letting the work flow into the next month), thereby getting maximum value? Or do you leave yourself a buffer by doing the annual early in the month? - Andrew |
#14
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
On Apr 17, 12:13 pm, Andrew Gideon wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 09:41:07 -0700, JB wrote: My major point is that once items are flagged as unairworthy during an inspection, the comparison between cars and planes no longer applies and the hassle-factor goes up considerably. This is only true if the previous annual has expired. It opens up an interesting policy decision. Do you do your annuals "late" (ie. at the last possible minute, perhaps letting the work flow into the next month), thereby getting maximum value? Or do you leave yourself a buffer by doing the annual early in the month? - Andrew In my case, we do it late in the cycle. But I'm not sure it matters. Won't an item(s) flagged as unairworthy during an inspection make the plane unairworthy regardless of the time?? I can't imagine that you could legally fly around just because your annual hasn't expired yet by the calendar. --Jeff |
#15
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 10:20:57 -0700, JB wrote:
But I'm not sure it matters. Won't an item(s) flagged as unairworthy during an inspection make the plane unairworthy regardless of the time?? Not merely by an IA's claim. I've never seen a discrepancy list. I'm told, though, that the wording will be something like "the inspection has been performed and that the aircraft had the follow discrepancies...". I can't imagine that you could legally fly around just because your annual hasn't expired yet by the calendar. This is actually a very interesting point. If there is a real issue on the discrepancy list, then I would opine that this wouldn't be legal because the pilot would know about the item. But if there's no real issue? BTW, this is all part 91 flying. I've no idea what additional issues arise out of 121 etc. - Andrew |
#16
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
I can't imagine that you
could legally fly around just because your annual hasn't expired yet by the calendar. --Jeff That technicality doesn;t really matter because if they want you, they will get you for flying an airplane with known defects regardless of the status of the logs... denny |
#17
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
In article .com,
JB wrote: In our case, we figured we save $50 not 50% so it wasn't worth the hassle. In that case, that IA wasn't ripping you off. -- Bob Noel (goodness, please trim replies!!!) |
#18
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BTW, this is all part 91 flying. I've no idea what additional issues
arise out of 121 etc. None of this applies to part 121. part 121 airplanes don't use "annual" inspections, but rather "phase" inspections. Also, most part 121 operators use minimum equipment list. |
#19
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
I was involved in a big donnybrook with a repair station on a
friend's Bonanza annual. Because they were a big time factory repair station, they felt a need to comply with all Beech service bulletins. They were condeming this Bonanza because the wing bolt replacement service bulletin hadn't been complied with. This is a Beech mandatory SB; there is no AD or legal requirement to comply for part 91. There has never been a failure. Conventional wisdom is to not mess with them if there is no corrosion. They wouldn't budge. So finally we had them sign it off as unairworthy with the bolts as the discrepancy. I went down, visually inspected the bolts signed it off as airworthy as an A&P and flew it home. As good as an annual because it WAS an annual! Your mileage may vary. I would guess that if an issue has been logged it should be resolved before flight. Bill Hale A&P On Apr 17, 12:15 pm, Denny wrote: I can't imagine that you could legally fly around just because your annual hasn't expired yet by the calendar. --Jeff That technicality doesn;t really matter because if they want you, they will get you for flying an airplane with known defects regardless of the status of the logs... denny |
#20
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Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)
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