Rumsfeld's on Bravery

From: "George Z. Bush" am

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
et...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

On the subject of volunteering, when he first joined the Texas ANG, he filled
out a form and checked a box on that form indicating that he did not wish to
serve overseas.

snip

George Z.

A great many young GIs filled out dream sheets with postings near home. They
are probably still doing it. Bush simply could have wanted to stay near
family.

I wouldn't read anymore into it whether or not he remembers ever having done
it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

George, his flight phsical did not run out until sometime in 1972--he
volunteered for Palace Alert while he was finishing training in early
1970.
By the time his physical ran out Palace Alert was no longer sending ANG
F-102 pilots to Vietnam/Thailand, and in fact the ANG was already
starting
to dump its F-102's entirely (IIRC the majority were retired by mid
1974).
So I still don't see what you are griping about--he volunteered while he
was
completing his Combat Crew training in the F-102, and he remained
qualified
in the F-102 throughout the remaining period that Palace Alert was
sending
ANG folks overseas. Apparently he was told upon volunteering, "Thanks,
but
no thanks--we have enough experienced (1000 hour plus) F-102 pilots
asking
for this duty so wea re not taking LT's straight out of the
schoolhouse."
You admitted earlier that you had never even heard of Palace Alert, but
now
you are in a position to judge GWB's volunteer status in that regard
without
realizing that you apparently had your timeline out of whack? If you
want to
condemn him for not being the best officer they ever had in the 111th FG
based upon his overall service record, fine, that is a matter of opinion
for
you to decide--but trying to claim that he never volunteered, or that he
volunteered and then figuratively shot himself in the foot via his
flight
physical to avoid having to meet that voluntary requirement, is just
plain
false, and the factual timeline does not support that assertion.

On the subject of volunteering, when he first joined the Texas ANG, he
filled
out a form and checked a box on that form indicating that he did not wish
to
serve overseas. When asked about it, he later said that he didn't
remember it,
and a member of his staff subsequently offered the imaginative explanation
that
a personnel clerk must have done it for him. Even if it was true, it
didn't
matter who did what.....he signed the form and was responsible for the
accuracy
of everything in it.

If you read the (not very pro-GWB at that) article I provided you with,
you'd realize that this is a non-starter. The source of the "clerk" bit was
the following (not a "member of his staff" as you stated): "...the
Washington Post reported on July 28th that "two weeks later, his office
provided a statement from a former, state-level Air Guard personnel officer,
asserting that since Bush 'was applying for a specific position with the
147th Fighter Group, it would have been inappropriate for him to have
volunteered for an overseas assignment and he probably was so advised by the
military personnel clerk assisting him in completing the form.'"

Note that this was written during the campaign and reported by a
none-too-pro-Bush source. If you have any doubt as to the likelihood of that
explanation, I can assure you that as late as the early 1990's we went
through the practice of having every member of our ARNG "contingency force
pool" (high priority for deployment) unit sign a specific "volunteer"
statement which was to be used if our unit was required for contingency
operations overseas. The legal hurdles over employing Guard forces overseas
now are not nearly what they were before ODS. You spent a career in the USAF
and never had a clerk tell you, "No, sir, I know that is what you think that
means, but you need to answer XXX" (usually followed by the ominous, "..or
it might take months to get your pay straightened out")?


About Palace Alert, Bush apparently applied for it some time during his
Combat
Crew Training program, and also apparently was promptly told that he
didn't have
a snowball's chance in hell of being selected for it because of his lack
of
flying experience. In any case, I learned that the program was
discontinued
exactly one week after Bush had completed his Combat Crew Training Course.
The
fact of his volunteering for that program hardly signified any serious
interest
in making that kind of contribution, since he was told up front that it
wasn't
going to happen for him.

He volunteered and was then told no. He had no way of knowing the program
was going to be tubed when he volunteered. And you think that is something
he should be ashamed of? I think you have to keep in mind that, unlike his
predecesor, who you go to equal or even greater extremes to defend his utter
lack of military service, not to mention his outright "loathing of the
military", there is no (none, zilch, zero) evidence that GWB had the lofty
ambition of being President, so why he would have carried out such a complex
and carefully calculated scheme to "volunteer without volunteering" is
beyond me. Clinton, on the other hand, clearly enunciated his ambition in
his letter to that PMS: "The decision not to be a resister and the related
subsequent decisions were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept
the draft in spite of my beliefs for one reason: to maintain my political
viability within the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a
political life characterized by both practical political ability and concern
for rapid social progress." As if that were not enough, he had to also say,
"I am writing too in the hope that my telling this one story will help you
to understand more clearly how so many fine people have come to find
themselves still loving their country but loathing the military..." How you
can defend Clinton for such a coldly calculating approach to not only
actively avoiding service while protecting his political viability,
something he readily admitted to, while trying to tear down Bush based upon
your interpretation of what you think he MIGHT have meant by volunteering
for Palace Alert is frankly beyond me.


Regarding the business about his flight physical, they normally expire a
month
following the birth month of the flyer, which would make it August of '72
in his
case. In April of '72, it apparently became common knowledge that flight
physicals were going to routinely include drug screenings. It wouldn't
have
stopped me one way or the other, but it must have bothered him enough to
manufacture an excuse for not making his appointment by saying that his
physician resided in Houston, Texas while he was ostensibly serving with
an
Alabama ANG unit. He abandoned that excuse when it was pointed out that
any
rated flight surgeon was authorized to conduct such examinations, and
there were
numerous ones available for his use at Maxwell AFB, Alabama. He chose not
to
renew his physical knowing full well that it would end his flying career,
which
it did. Doesn't it make you wonder what the impetus might have been to do
something like that? I think we both know what the reality of the
situation
was.

I don't think that is anything you can corroborate as factual. I find it a
bit surprising that you build an entire case against Bush based solely upon
supposition, inuendo, and a strangely skewed timeline (though I at least am
now happy that you have at last realized he DID volunteer for Palace Alert),
and are convinced it is fact, but the very mention of Clinton as being
anti-military, or of his REAL draft dodging, brings you springing to his
defense.


I'm sure that you're thoroughly unimpressed with all of this, and perhaps
it's
time to lay it to rest and move on, since it looks like neither of us is
going
to change our views of the man. In any event, he's still our President
and CIC,
and belaboring the details of his service isn't really going to change
anything.

True enough. And you might find it a bit surprising, but I am none too
enamored of some of his policies. I've even been known to vote for a
democrat upon occasion. Best wishes for the holidays (and don't get the idea
I have given up if you receive no further response from me for a while--on
the way to the in-laws down south tomorrow morning).

Brooks


George Z.

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "George Z. Bush" am

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
et...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

On the subject of volunteering, when he first joined the Texas ANG, he filled
out a form and checked a box on that form indicating that he did not wish to
serve overseas.

snip

George Z.

A great many young GIs filled out dream sheets with postings near home. They
are probably still doing it. Bush simply could have wanted to stay near
family.

I wouldn't read anymore into it whether or not he remembers ever having done
it.

I don't. I accept his explanation at face value. He just didn't
remember.....but he did sign the form and was responsible for everything on it.
He didn't want to go overseas while a war was raging in Viet Nam. He wanted to
be close to his family, just like countless others, many of whom were
conveniently labeled draft dodgers.

BTW, family for him in those days was just Mom, Dad and a couple of brothers.
He didn't get married until long after those days.....1977 to be precise.

George Z.

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

True enough. And you might find it a bit surprising, but I am none too
enamored of some of his policies. I've even been known to vote for a
democrat upon occasion. Best wishes for the holidays (and don't get the idea
I have given up if you receive no further response from me for a while--on
the way to the in-laws down south tomorrow morning).

It's probably just as well, since we seem to be going around in circles, anyway.
Just be sure to take your passport along when you cross into my part of the
country.....we sometimes allow Yankees to roam our countryside without keepers
if they have their passports with them, but never Damn Yankees! (^-^)))

Enjoy the holidays and have a safe trip.

George Z.



Brooks


George Z.

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
t...

"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...

(Snip)

True enough. And you might find it a bit surprising, but I am none too
enamored of some of his policies. I've even been known to vote for a
democrat upon occasion. Best wishes for the holidays (and don't get the
idea
I have given up if you receive no further response from me for a
while--on
the way to the in-laws down south tomorrow morning).

It's probably just as well, since we seem to be going around in circles,
anyway.
Just be sure to take your passport along when you cross into my part of
the
country.....we sometimes allow Yankees to roam our countryside without
keepers
if they have their passports with them, but never Damn Yankees! (^-^)))

LOL! George, I'm a Virginian; I hope that still counts as southern, with the
possible exception of that part of the state that lies north of the
Rappahannock (the emphasis in the expression "Northern Viginia" should be on
the first word). My wife however was born in NY, so I'll make sure she
brings her Green Card along! Gotta go, but in a vague effort to keep this
somewhere close to topical, I'll mention that the inlaws live outside
Daytona in one of the very few "fly in" communities in the country--they
have an airfield (originally an old Naval Air Station), and many of the
homes have hangars attached; aircraft can taxi down the "streets". Neat
place!

Brooks


Enjoy the holidays and have a safe trip.

George Z.



Brooks


George Z.