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Shot at/Shot back



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 6th 04, 06:12 AM
Kevin Brooks
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"Steven James Forsberg" wrote in message
...

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)


Double check that source. A few years ago the validity, if not the
integrity, of Marshall's "research" was called into serious question. His
work had been accepted as gospel for decades, but his methodology and
conclusions have since been the subject of reinvestigation. Some have even
gone so far as to claim he pulled his supporting "statistics" out of thin
air. See:

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/usawc/P...n/chambers.pdf

http://www.ku.edu/carrie/archives/mi.../msg00065.html


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


IIRC Dole spent a year or more under military hospital care while recovering
from his wounds.

Brooks


regards,
-----------------------------------------------------





Ads
  #12  
Old March 6th 04, 06:13 AM
Kevin Brooks
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"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Steven James Forsberg wrote:

: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)


That has been my general impression, very little aiming going on.


Don't buy into Marshall too quickly; his conclusions, and the manner in
which he reached them, have since been brought into serious question.

Brooks



More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th

Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

Bob McKellar



  #13  
Old March 6th 04, 01:16 PM
Jack Linthicum
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Steven James Forsberg wrote in message ...
: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)
More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


My service from Google comes and goes, that is I will have 6 postings
one minute and 3 the next on the same topic. Anyway, here is the
anti-Marshall work:

http://www.warchronicle.com/us/comba...rshallfire.htm

I had heard similar tales as Marshall's repeated about the Civil War,
ie load after load in a muzzle-loader and no discharge. Not hard to
imagine but obviously not documented.
  #14  
Old March 6th 04, 01:21 PM
Jack Linthicum
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Steven James Forsberg wrote in message ...
: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)
More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."


add: http://www-cgsc.army.mil/milrev/engl...b00/jordan.asp

The Army way of saying Marshall was incorrect, 'new data' and
Marshall's formula was lost with his death.
  #15  
Old March 6th 04, 03:15 PM
Joe Osman
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Chris Mark wrote:
From: Bob McKellar [email protected]



I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way.



Henry Kissinger's name was bandied about as a possible presidential candidate
at one time (and as with Arnold Swartzenegger, his fans hoped a constitutional
amendment would make it possible). During WW2, he served as a rifleman with
the 84th Infantry Division and fought at the Battle of the Bulge, where he had
plenty of opportunities to be shot at and shoot back. Seeing that he was Jewish
and his family fled Germany in 1938, he took killing Nazis personally.
A brief history of the 84th ID's exploits during the war can be found he

http://www.lonesentry.com/gi_stories.../84thinfantry/


Chris Mark


I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

Joe

  #16  
Old March 6th 04, 03:20 PM
Joe Osman
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Bob McKellar wrote:


Steven James Forsberg wrote:


: Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
: too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
: combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
: aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Well, according to SLA Marshall there is a real question as to
how much shooting in WWII was actually "aimed" at all. ;-)



That has been my general impression, very little aiming going on.


More seriously, Dole was a 2lt on the front lines with the
10th Mountain Division (presumably infantry branch) when he was wounded
trying to pull his wounded radioman to safety. IIRC from a speech he
gave, he almost died three times (on the battlefield, and two different
times after surgeries stateside). Got a Bronze Star and 2 Purple Hearts
for his efforts.
ISTR he once quipped about how he got assigned to the 10th Mountain
Division -- "I'm from Kansas, and this was the army..."



A distinguished and witty gentlemen, without a doubt.

Bob McKellar


They sent him all casts and bandages on a troop train back to Kansas and
when his family went on the train to get him they found that the rest of
the soldiers had been using him as an ashtray.

Joe

  #18  
Old March 6th 04, 04:03 PM
Ed Rasimus
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On 06 Mar 2004 15:22:27 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: (OT) Shot at/Shot back
From: "George Z. Bush"
am

Tied in vote total with Thomas
Jefferson he became vice president by decision of the House of

Representives
but is probably most known for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel. He


I think he is better known for his part in the landmark Supreme Court case
Marbury V. Madison,(1804) a case which effects our lives to this day.

Arthur Kramer


Marbury v Madison?...and Aaron Burr? Nahh.

The players in the case were John Adams (who made the appointment to
Marbury), and John Marshall who should have delivered the appointment.
When Jefferson became president, he directed James Madison (who had
replaced Marshall) to not deliver the pending appointments so he could
reward his own supporters. Marbury sued Madison asking the courts to
issue a writ of mandamus to compel the executive branch to fulfill the
appointment of the previous president.

Marshall, now chief justice of the Supreme Court, took the opportunity
to institute the principal of judicial review, which had not been
spelled out in the Constitution--ruling that the courts could not
mandate the executive to act. That would be a violation of separation
of powers.

With that case, the idea that the Supreme Court could rule on
constitutionality of legislative and judicial acts was established.

But, no Burr involved as far as I know.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #19  
Old March 6th 04, 04:17 PM
ArtKramr
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Subject: (OT) Shot at/Shot back
From: Ed Rasimus
Date: 3/6/04 8:03 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 06 Mar 2004 15:22:27 GMT,
(ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: (OT) Shot at/Shot back
From: "George Z. Bush"
am

Tied in vote total with Thomas
Jefferson he became vice president by decision of the House of
Representives
but is probably most known for killing Alexander Hamilton in a duel. He


I think he is better known for his part in the landmark Supreme Court case
Marbury V. Madison,(1804) a case which effects our lives to this day.

Arthur Kramer


Marbury v Madison?...and Aaron Burr? Nahh.

The players in the case were John Adams (who made the appointment to
Marbury), and John Marshall who should have delivered the appointment.
When Jefferson became president, he directed James Madison (who had
replaced Marshall) to not deliver the pending appointments so he could
reward his own supporters. Marbury sued Madison asking the courts to
issue a writ of mandamus to compel the executive branch to fulfill the
appointment of the previous president.

Marshall, now chief justice of the Supreme Court, took the opportunity
to institute the principal of judicial review, which had not been
spelled out in the Constitution--ruling that the courts could not
mandate the executive to act. That would be a violation of separation
of powers.

With that case, the idea that the Supreme Court could rule on
constitutionality of legislative and judicial acts was established.

But, no Burr involved as far as I know.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8


Exactly. Burr never involved.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

  #20  
Old March 6th 04, 04:19 PM
George Z. Bush
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Posts: n/a
Default



Joe Osman wrote:
Chris Mark wrote:
From: Bob McKellar [email protected]



I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way.



Henry Kissinger's name was bandied about as a possible presidential candidate
at one time (and as with Arnold Swartzenegger, his fans hoped a
constitutional amendment would make it possible). During WW2, he served as
a rifleman with the 84th Infantry Division and fought at the Battle of the
Bulge, where he had plenty of opportunities to be shot at and shoot back.
Seeing that he was Jewish and his family fled Germany in 1938, he took
killing Nazis personally.
A brief history of the 84th ID's exploits during the war can be found he

http://www.lonesentry.com/gi_stories.../84thinfantry/


Chris Mark


I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.


I extracted the following from one of his biographies that Google pointed me at:

"From 1943 to 1946 Dr. Kissinger served in the U.S. Army Counter-Intelligence
Corps and from 1946 to 1949 was a captain in the Military Intelligence Reserve."

George Z.

Joe



 




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