What to do about North Korea...?

In article ,
Jose wrote:

It seems to me that our response to the 9-11
vandals

"vandals"???

That is simply the dumbest characterization of the low-life scum
that I've ever heard. You make Mikey look like a genius.

--
Bob Noel
Looking for a sig the
lawyers will hate

"vandals"???

That is simply the dumbest characterization of the low-life scum
that I've ever heard. You make Mikey look like a genius.

I use that particular charactarization here because I mean to emphasize
that the attack was planned and carried out by a small number of people,
not by a nation, or even a sizable religious group. Although they claim
to do it in the name of that sizable group, just like the abortion
clinic bombers do their thing in the name of their sizable group, I do
not believe that their actions reflect the actual positions of that
group. (yes, you can find in the Koran... you can also find in the
Bible...)

It was an act of mass murder by a small group, not an act of war by a
nation. While this may not matter to those who died, it should matter
very much to those who decide our response. However, our response
ultimately was to use this independent act to bolster our bravado
against a =different=, lookalike enemy. Now we wonder why they hate us
so much more. (and yes, I believe they hate us =more= now than they did
before, and with reason).

Religious fundamentalism, of all kinds, is extremely dangerous,
insidious, and difficult to root out. Bob Fry (IMHO) is correct in
this, and also the facts he presents appear reasonable, but the
inference that most all of the Islamic people are our enemy, and always
were, is all too easy to make from his presentation, and that would be
incorrect.

True, the worst case
is they shoot a couple of nukes off, let's say one in Asia, another to
the US...followed with massive retaliation by the US.

Were the US to even =attempt= to retalliate with nukes would be a
disaster and make us the enemy of the world. A massive conventional war
against Korea is more likely to succeed, though our miltary history in
the last sixty years is not inspiring (and a loss here would also be a
huge disaster). Doing nothing would also be a disaster if Korea
attacked, whereas doing nothing would =not= have been a disaster after
9-11. Which I suppose is my point.

I think it is possible to contain the Korea threat. It is simple, it is
based on known principles (nations wanting power over other nations),
and it is basically military.

The threat of religious fundamentalism is far more subtle, and dealing
with it properly goes fundamentally against our (stated) principles.
This is why [warning - aviation content] we ourselves have the FRZ,
ADIZ, and other silly rules to follow, under penalty of an F-15.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I wonder what our Air Force guys in South Korea are doing right now...

Sounds like they are watching missiles fail mid-flight according to CNN.
:-)

I was sort of hoping we'd use this occasion for some live tests of our
anti-missile laser and missile systems. It would be nice to have some
free targets for a change.

I wish I could feel so confident about this thing.

While the world's attention has been diverted to Iraq and Gaza, I think
the real nightmare scenario is developing in North Korea.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think the nut-jobs in North Korea will use their technology for blackmail.
They are bright enough to realize that if they ever pop of a ballistic
missile or a nuke at anyone, they will be out of power quickly because the
leadership cadre will be dead - squashed like a bug. In the end, staying in
power is their goal and being dead doesn't help that cause. So, instead of
lighting off their toys, they will rattle swords to blackmail the West and
their neighbors for various forms of aid which will serve to keep the little
gargoyle Kim El Jong in power.

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people ever
get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

"Stubby" == Stubby writes:
Stubby I suspect our Special Ops crews are preparing for very
Stubby secret missions to disable many components of NK's threat.

I suspect you've absorbed too many action movies.

Special Ops crews are not superhuman, and the NK's are not some
3rd-world banana republic.

"Jose" wrote in message
.com...
that our response to the 9-11 vandals has created or at least amplified a
lot of the anti-US

"Vandals"?

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:

The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people
ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.

That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous than
either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from having
radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up tomorrow
to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge? Certainly,
our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in Iraq, and the
re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has permitted to rise in
Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006


--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:


The islamists, on the other hand, particularly the ones who have gone over
to the 99.99% extreme of their religion actually believe that dying is a
good thing if it is done in a way that kills infidels. If those people
ever get the bomb, I think they will use it if they get a chance.


That is why the situation in Pakistan is potentially far more dangerous than
either N. Korea or Iran.

Pakistan is a nuclear power *now*, and is only a quick coup away from having
radical Islamists in power. What will the U. S. do if we wake up tomorrow
to find Pervez Musharraf overthrown and the Mullahs in charge? Certainly,
our options will be restricted by the effort being wasted in Iraq, and the
re-emerging Taliban problem that that useless war has permitted to rise in
Afghanistan.

At a time when we need to be light on our feet, we are stuck in a tar-pit:

"We are not controlling events in Iraq. Events in Iraq are controlling us.
We are the puppet; the street gangs of Baghdad and Basra are the
puppet-masters, aided and abetted by an unsavory assortment of confidence
men, bazaar traders, scheming clerics, ethnic front men, and Iranian agents.
With all our wealth and power and idealism, we have submitted to become the
plaything of a rabble, and a Middle Eastern rabble at that. [ ] The
lazy-minded evangelico-romanticism of George W. Bush, the bureaucratic will
to power of Donald Rumsfeld, the avuncular condescension of Dick Cheney, and
the reflexive military deference of Colin Powell combined to get us into a
situation we never wanted to be in, a situation no self-respecting nation
ought to be in, a situation we don't know how to get out of."

-John Derbyshire, National Review Online, June 12th, 2006

What a bunch of crap.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote:


What a bunch of crap.

Couldn't very well call it a bunch of left wing crap, could you?

I'm sure you remember...

"Mission accomplished!"
- Banner welcoming George W. Bush aboard the USS Lincoln, May, 2003?

But now listen to the dean of American conservative journalism:

"One can't doubt that the American objective in Iraq has failed."
--Wm. F. Buckley, February, 2006

It takes some very intense denial to see the invasion of Iraq as anything
but a grotesque blunder. Even serious American conservative thinkers are
beginning to admit this. Now, the harm done is becoming evident: American
power and international influence--squandered in Iraq--are in short supply
when needed to confront *real* threats.

--
Dan

"Hell hath no fury like a noncombatant."
-Mitchell Coffey

I have no doubt there are US & Russian subs, just waiting around
to pick up the rockets and other debris...From what I understand,
the NK guidance system is only slightly better than the cruise control
on my car.

Quilljar wrote:

While the world's attention has been diverted to Iraq and Gaza, I
think the real nightmare scenario is developing in North Korea.


Or Guantalamo Bay?

Guantalamo (sic) Bay is producing its own sovereign long range nuclear
weapons of mass destruction delivery system?