need to rent(borrow?) 1-2 life vests (a raft?) for Oshkosh

Don't waste your energy flying over the lake. It will only take a few
extra minutes to fly around it and the scenery is great (if the haze isn't
too bad). Fly direct Gary and then up the lake shore.

Maybe we'll end up doing just that; at this moment I'm just
considering
what's available.

Chances are we'll be on an IFR plan (esp. in case of MVFR vis.)
In this case, we don't want to accept long overwater routing w/o
the survival gear aboard. My understanding is that, due to the area
airspace congestion during Oshkosh, the more options you have
available to accept safely, the better.

I don't think I could survive 2 hours in that water. The water is cold
even in the summer. Hypothermia is not fun. A number of years ago the
army lost a few soldiers in Florida due to hypothermia. They were wet, but
not in the water. It was 50 degrees out. They died of hypothermia. Cold
and wet is very bad.

I agree. My personal tried limits in a swimsuit are 22*C for 2 hours,
after which I was standing about 1/2hour in a warm shower in order to
stop shivering. I understand that it can easily be colder than 20* in
the lake,
I doubt I'll survive that on my own (maybe with some immediate
hypothermia
treatment right after that?) I don't think my clothes will add a lot
of protection. (Lower than 13* means I can't breathe in the water...)

"Tom Fleischman" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

Why fly over the lake at all. Now that Meigs is gone you can fly along
the shoreline under the Class B shelf between Gary, IN and Kenosha,
WI.

Even when Meigs was there, it wasn't a problem to fly the shoreline. The
tower dealt with as many transits as they did with landing operations.
None of the towers along the lake gave us any problems. We have
extended conversations with the Gary controller (we seem to get the same
one most times). We even stopped in at Gary for a bathroom stop one
year.

Tom Fleischman wrote:

Coming up from Philly that would seem the most direct
route in any event.

The most direct route cuts over two of the lakes and part of Ontario.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

Be sure you read the NOTAMs on IFR flights into OSH. You must have a slot
reservation and hit the arrival window within 15 minutes of your projected
time. This reservation must be filed days in advance since there are only
so many slots per day.

"Vassilii Khachaturov" wrote in message
om...
Chances are we'll be on an IFR plan (esp. in case of MVFR vis.)
In this case, we don't want to accept long overwater routing w/o
the survival gear aboard. My understanding is that, due to the area
airspace congestion during Oshkosh, the more options you have
available to accept safely, the better.

"JerryK" wrote in message ...
Be sure you read the NOTAMs on IFR flights into OSH. You must have a slot
reservation and hit the arrival window within 15 minutes of your projected
time. This reservation must be filed days in advance since there are only
so many slots per day.

You can always just cancel once you get over land and go to Ripon with the
VFR arrivals. We had a running battle with MKE approach about when we
were going to cancel IFR (we were a little reticent to do so until we got over
land).

I'm told that they're a bit more lenient with your arrival time (provided you have
a reservation at all) than the NOTAM would have you believe.

Be sure you read the NOTAMs on IFR flights into OSH. You must have a slot

Thanks for your reminder. In preparation I've read some interesting
NTSB entries from the last several years, and they convinced me
to learn the NOTAM, and think about CRM on arrival. We'll try flying
in a less busy place first to see if the duties split we think of
right now will safely work.

As for the NOTAM, I'm reading it every other day for the last couple
of weeks already, along with my chair-flying evening sessions

reservation and hit the arrival window within 15 minutes of your projected
time. This reservation must be filed days in advance since there are only
so many slots per day.

The slot is there waiting for the arrival last 2 months already
We'll cancel it if we know it is going to be very good & sure VFR.

"Vassilii Khachaturov" wrote in message
P.P.S. Responses along the lines "you folks are paranoid, you'll only
be 15-25 minutes overwater without a shore you can glide to, so don't
take any flotation gear aboard" will be ignored.

Why? That would seem to be the most obvious solution to this dilemma you
are trying to put yourself in.

Not being a smartass, I really wanna know what your reasoning is.

--
Jim Fisher

Jim Fisher wrote:

Not being a smartass, I really wanna know what your reasoning is.

Seems to me that he regards any risk of going down in that water without
PFDs as being unacceptable. He's PIC, he's completely responsible for
deciding what's an acceptable risk.

Me, I accept the fact that, if I go down in Lake Michigan, I'm going to
die. That's a risk I have taken. I will not criticise someone else for being
unwilling to do so.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

"Vassilii Khachaturov" wrote in message m...
Be sure you read the NOTAMs on IFR flights into OSH. You must have a slot

Thanks for your reminder. In preparation I've read some interesting
NTSB entries from the last several years, and they convinced me
to learn the NOTAM, and think about CRM on arrival. We'll try flying
in a less busy place first to see if the duties split we think of
right now will safely work.

IFR arrivals usually are dumped out over Lake Winnebago for a straight
in for 27. You will be merging in with the VFR arrivals that are flying
downwind-base-final on the north side of the runway.

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
Seems to me that he regards any risk of going down in that water without
PFDs as being unacceptable. He's PIC, he's completely responsible for
deciding what's an acceptable risk.

I mis-spoke. I was really asking why we would not simply avoid flying out
of gliding distance of a shoreline. Many other posters in this thread seem
to think this option is so easily done that I would not hesitate choosing a
waterless route.

--
Jim Fisher