Private Pilot in 10 days

Slav Inger wrote:

And that's just to attain the bare minimums required by the FARs. Not
many of us walk away with the ticket after just 40 hours.

It is important to recall that the FARs (and the PTSs) set minimums. I hope
that we all aim far higher than this.

The IR PTS requires demonstration of three different types of approaches.
Should we learn only three?

- Andrew

I'm not sure I agree if the ground school was finished before the ten days
began. I don't see why someone wouldn't learn as much in three 1:20 flights
in one day as in one week. How many different weather situations do you
think a pilot learning to fly over three months in AZ sees? My own
experience is that I learn fastest if the training occurs with minimal
lapses between sessions.. That holds true for everything, not just flying.

Mike
MU-2


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
t...
I can't believe that anyone can assimilate what it takes to be a safe
pilot
with good judgment in ten days. At the very least, you need to experience
a
variety of weather situations. Wouldn't touch this place with the
proverbial
ten foot pole.

Bob Gardner

"Gilan" wrote in message
...
I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10 days.
I
plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how long the
average
person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html

--
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
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Join "The Ultralight & Experimental Aircraft SiteRing"
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Two years ago I went to Lake Elmo, MN, USA.
I took flying lesson during 1 month, and then the examn. It's possible,
I am sure. But if my dad would fly himself I weren't able to do that. I
flew with my dad many many times, and I knew a lot about flying before
get started at Lake Elmo. But you have always to know:
If you have your license you are allowed to fly, you aren't yet a good
pilot. The skills are coming with the time! And you can't get this
skills in 10 days. That needs a whole life. Even my dad after 20 years
of flying, isn't yet at the end of perfection. You learn after each
flight. Never forget to make a debrifing for your own.

Roger



Benjamin Gawert wrote:
Gilan wrote:


I just started flying at a school that offers Private Pilot in 10
days. I plan on taking a bit longer then 10 days but wondered how
long the average person takes to complete their PPL?

Private Pilot in 10 days
http://www.perfectplanes.com/index.html


For me, that doesn't sound good. I'm quite sure 10 days might be long enough
to show someone how to manage a some-kind-of level flight and maybe some
kind of landings, but I'm quite sure it in no way will be enough time to get
a somewhat useable pilot, especially when beginning from zero...

I was looking for a compressed PPL training for myself, and next week I will
begin my training which certainly will take around 7 intensive weeks. But
then, my instructor doesn't have from the beginning since I already have
flying experience and knowledge. I'm aware that even with my experience this
probably would be some hard weeks, and I really can't imagine that such a
10-day-pilot will be really be able to fly solo in a somewhat safe manner...

Benjamin

Andrew Gideon wrote:

It is important to recall that the FARs (and the PTSs) set minimums. I hope
that we all aim far higher than this.

The IR PTS requires demonstration of three different types of approaches.
Should we learn only three?


That's exactly my point. Quickest doesn't always mean the best.

- Slav Inger
- PP ASEL IA @ YIP

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:08:21 -0400, G.R. Patterson III
wrote:
There was a study done about 1970 on the differences in long-term learning
between those who "crammed" for exams versus those who prepared by studying
lessons throughout the semester.

How does this relate to retention of physical skills?

I strongly suspect the 10-day courses are just for the physical flying -
I would expect that they need you to be done with the groundschool before
starting.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

Dylan Smith wrote:

A friend of mine did his private in two weeks (I watched him, he was doing
it in my plane, my partner was his instructor). In a taildragger, as well.
By the end, he had no trouble handling a 15-knot crosswind - he had
to demonstrate that on his checkride. He's certainly not a physical
'klutz' to start with (which helps), but I don't think he's really out
of the normal distribution of human physical skills.

Dylan,

Out of curiousity, did he have previous exposure to aviation (flying
with family, flying with you, gliders, etc)?

Cheers,
Sydney

Accelerated training is far superior to long drawn out scheduling. I will
attempt to tell you why it is and why it works.

Long term memory is stored in various ways. There is implicit memory and
explicit memory.

Explicit memorys are memories that we can consciously remember. Most of what
we commonly consider "memory" is explicit memory. Answers we give on exams
are a product of explicit memory. Everything you know and remember is
explicit memory. These memories are recalled from cues and links to other
memories. Declarative memories are general factual information and Episodic
memories are personal experiances or based on an episode. The amount of
emotion involved has a great deal to do with its long term retention. You
can't remember what you ate last month, but you can (if you are old enough)
remember what you were doing when Kennedy was shot 40 years ago! or when the
Shuttle blew up on take off some 20 years ago. Also pleasureable moments are
stored better,Can you remember when ... you get the point. Things learned in
a pleasureable atmosphere are retained much longer. In an accelerated
learning atmosphere, you are concentrating on one thing, learning. All other
family stress, job stress, telephones, that normally cause interference to
learning are not present. Think about the once a week student that had a bad
week at the office and came in for a lesson and was thinking about all the
weeks worth of crap that just happened to him, he is trying to learn what
the instructor is saying but doesn't really learn anything. Accelerated
training just doesn't involve anything but a positive learning environment.
The student is learning rapidly and having an enjoyable experiance, which
reinforces the long term retention of the information. The plateau that all
students have when trying to land goes by so fast they don't get discouraged
and quit. The onece a week student gets discouraged when after three or four
or eight weeks go by and they still can't land the plane. They say I just
can't do this and quit. My students are usually soloing on the 3rd or 4th
day, and landing better than most of the commercial students from the big
141 schools that come into our little airport. This might be hard to believe
but it's true.

Implicit memories are memories that we do not consciously remember, which
influence our behavior, These are the memories that we instill by proper
conditioning. These are also the memories that come into play during an
emergency. Primal thought patterns that were injected correctly in the
beginning will come back with no thought at all. The conditioning takes
repetition for laong term storage. The decay rate of long term memory is
something also to consider. The average person will retain about 95 % of the
information presented by the next day. By the 7th day this is down to %80
and by day 10 it is %70. The positive reinforcement on the next day is far
superior to the once a week student. The average person can learn about 7
concepts per day, I generally only introduce about 5, then reinforce them
the next day and introduce 5 more. The understanding is important to the
long term memory retention so I discuss each concept to a depth that they
can apply, such as airspace rules. Don't just recite them to me , what does
that mean to you as a VFR pilot, how do you apply that information.

The other key ingredient is the instructor. He must be so passionate
about"TEACHING" not just a passenger building time. All instructors could
not teach this method, in fact i would say that most could not, from what I
have seen out there! Also all students cannot learn by this method, or any
method for that matter. Each individual has hei/her own needs and the
instruction needs to be taylored to that person. That is why I don't like
the 141 approach to cutting cookies. I do however use the course sylibus and
checklists from a 141 program to record the progress and be sure all
material has been covered.

I have taught many students to fly in 10 days, never had an accident or
insurance claim of any kind on any of my aircraft, and have produced very
competent pilots!
I hope I can get some of them to take a little time to come on line to tell
you of their experiance!

Cliff Manley
Perfect Planes, Inc.
www.perfectplanes.com

Oh, and for those of you that think I'm in this for the money, aren' in the
business. There simply is no money in this business, If you don't love it
you better find something else to do with your time! Also financially it
would be better for me to have 5 to 8 students a day, each running out 80
hours. 80 hours is more income than 40! But I don't because it's not better!
It's better to know one student at a time and know what they need and what
you are going to each minute. How many times with the once a week student
does the instructor look in their logbook just to try and remember what they
did last time? Think about it and you will see my point. And if you don't I
don't care anyway! The students are trained well at a low cost, and have fun
doing it!

I love it!
Cliff

Dylan Smith wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:08:21 -0400, G.R. Patterson III
wrote:

There was a study done about 1970 on the differences in long-term learning
between those who "crammed" for exams versus those who prepared by studying
lessons throughout the semester.

How does this relate to retention of physical skills?

I don't know what your experience is nor what the study says about this,
but my own experience is "physical skills: use 'em or lose 'em".

Cheers,
Sydney

Robert -

When u did that 707 at Pan AM in 1967, the philosophy was to teach "how the
system operates". When I did 727 at Pan AM in 1988 the philosophy was to
teach "how to operate the system" rather then "how the system operates". And
that is still the case as we speak. call it economics, change of heart (as
far as the FAA is concerened) or whatever, but that's reality. No one care
to know the type of, or color of the wires in the electrical system anymore.
I'm not going to fix it or build it. just fly it.

Happy flying......Mike....


"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...
(Corky Scott) wrote
Knowledge is knowledge. If it stays in you, what
does it matter how quickly you are taught it?

But it doesn't stay Corky. Some more of that stuff
that every kindergarden teacher is required to study
in college that the average flight instructor has no
clue about. Long term and short term memory and the
methods and conditions required for transferring
learning from one to the other.

The FAA "Fundamentals of Instruction", universally
condemmed by flight instructors, contains very good
information about the teaching-learning process but in
such condensed form that in "rote" learning it just to
pass the test, flight instructors retain nothing from it.

The 10-day quicky course relies almost solely on rote
learning and I quote from the FOI, "Avoid rote learning,
for it does not foster transfer".

When I first joined PanAm way back in 1967, the Initial
Qualification program for the B-707 was six months long.
The Electrical System covered almost a complete week by
itself. At the end, I personally felt well qualified.
At the end in 1991, that same Initial Qualification course
required only two months. Same basic information taught,
just not enough time to learn and retain it. Electrical
in the morning followed by hydraulics and flight controls
that same afternoon. It wasn't very effective training.

Bob Moore
Teaching since 1962