possible FAA action... flight or fight?

I got in a little trouble with the FAA and they want to take my license
for 6 months. Now their case isn't too strong (and based very much on
the subjectivity of "safe" and not on any clear cut violation of a
FAR). I'm trying to decide whether to fight it (expensive attorney
fees) or just suck it up and take some time off flying (which I
desperately don't want to do since I fly a lot and use my plane for
business).

1. Will this follow me the rest of my life or is it like speeding
where after so many years (3, etc) it's off your record?

2. What are the implications of having a violation on my record if I
decide to get a flying job in the future? How seriously do employers
look at violations? Is it a thing where I won't even get called in
for an interview if I have one on my application or will they normally
call me in so I can explain things in an interview?

3. Any rough idea how it affects insurance rates if there's a
violation (like XX% or something)?

4. Is it worth fighting the FAA- how often do folks actually win?
I've only heard horror stories and it seems like a GA pilot really
doesn't have much of a chance.

5. How negotiable is the FAA regarding the 6-month suspension- have
any of you been able to talk them into something else like a shorter
time (30 days or 60 days) or maybe community service?

I would appreciate any comments from folks that have been through this
before (vs just speculation).

Frank

Don't talk to us. Contact AOPA Legal Services NOW! Do not discuss
anything here -- it's public and can be used against you.

Call an aviation lawyer if you're not a member of AOPA Legal Services.

Now.

"Blanche" wrote in message
...
Don't talk to us.
Why not?

Contact AOPA Legal Services NOW! Do not discuss
anything here -- it's public and can be used against you.

What did he possibly say that could be used against him? He never admitted
to doing anything wrong or unlawful.

Call an aviation lawyer if you're not a member of AOPA Legal Services.

Now.

Paranoia can destroy ya.

Well, maybe, but then there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to discuss
his problem with these NG's.

We had a series of violations charged at our airport and everybody got that
ol' time religion all of a sudden. An FAA agent came and carded a bunch of
us and wrote several people up. He was very courteous and fair about it,
and iirc everybody who got into compliance, except for a student pilot who
had stolen a 172 and had 3 other souls aboard w/o a signoff, was let off the
hook, once they began walking the straight and narrow. It made me rather
admire the FAA for their reasonableness.

Either one of the chosen NG's is a good place for issues like the original
poster's to be discussed. And he looks to be fairly anonymous.

there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to discuss
his problem with these NG's

If one is careful and circumspect enough, yes. However, it's easy to
slip up by accident and say something here, publicly and archived, that
one might wish they hadn't, and this might adversely affect the outcome.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Frank,

I got in a little trouble with the FAA and they want to take my license
for 6 months. Now their case isn't too strong (and based very much on
the subjectivity of "safe" and not on any clear cut violation of a
FAR).

Come on, you leave us hanging like that! Seriously though, if you want
meaningful feedback you'll need to give us more details, however, your best
bet is probably to call AOPA and discuss it in private with them.

Having said that, I've seen or heard of pilots getting an 'FAA phone call'
(ONLY) for doing stupid things, so if the FAA thinks if it bad enough for 6
months, perhaps there's more to it. Also, many of the FARs are subjective
and many certificates have been revoked for 'subjective' interpretations
without it being clear cut, so don't naively think you're good there.

It might also be worthwhile to discuss this episode with a CFI and
re-examine your design making since I do detect a slight bit of
anti-autority (or whatever the text books call it).

Hilton

1. Will this follow me the rest of my life or is it like speeding
where after so many years (3, etc) it's off your record?

It could, but only if you attempt to be a professional pilot and not a
weekend personal flyer.

2. What are the implications of having a violation on my record if I
decide to get a flying job in the future? How seriously do employers
look at violations? Is it a thing where I won't even get called in
for an interview if I have one on my application or will they normally
call me in so I can explain things in an interview?

Could be big, depends on the infraction

3. Any rough idea how it affects insurance rates if there's a
violation (like XX% or something)?


The standard questions is "anything in the past 3 yrs", that I have seen.

4. Is it worth fighting the FAA- how often do folks actually win?
I've only heard horror stories and it seems like a GA pilot really
doesn't have much of a chance.

Should have paid for AOPA legal services ahead of time. Some do win, some
get a smaller slap/suspension with x hrs additional training in the area
under concern, or maybe a re-ride with the FAA to validate your certificate.

5. How negotiable is the FAA regarding the 6-month suspension- have
any of you been able to talk them into something else like a shorter
time (30 days or 60 days) or maybe community service?

See answer #4 above

I would appreciate any comments from folks that have been through this
before (vs just speculation).

Frank


Not been through it, just know others who have.

wrote:
I got in a little trouble with the FAA and they want to take my license
for 6 months. Now their case isn't too strong (and based very much on
the subjectivity of "safe" and not on any clear cut violation of a
FAR). I'm trying to decide whether to fight it (expensive attorney
fees) or just suck it up and take some time off flying (which I
desperately don't want to do since I fly a lot and use my plane for
business).

There's simply too many variables here to offer specific advice or
uneducated opinion. At the very least you will want to consult with a
lawyer before taking any action. The big thing to keep in mind is that
enforcement actions are adjudicated under administrative law which has
different standards of evidence than what you see on Law and Order.
There is no presumption of innocence so if it is your subjective
interpretation of the FARs versus the FAA's, you stand a very good
chance of losing.

As for the lack of a clear-cut violation, there are plenty of "gotcha"
clauses to make sure they can always get you on something.

One thing you've not given us is where you are in the process. Were you
invited to an informal conference at all, or are they just going
straight after you? If they've already decided to send you straight to
the firing squad, then the only risk of fighting is to your wallet. If
on the other hand they're offering a "plea bargain" of sorts and you
lose the fight, then you risk having the book thrown at you.

-cwk.

wrote:
I got in a little trouble with the FAA and they want to take my license
for 6 months. Now their case isn't too strong (and based very much on
the subjectivity of "safe" and not on any clear cut violation of a
FAR). I'm trying to decide whether to fight it (expensive attorney
fees) or just suck it up and take some time off flying (which I
desperately don't want to do since I fly a lot and use my plane for
business).

1. Will this follow me the rest of my life or is it like speeding
where after so many years (3, etc) it's off your record?

2. What are the implications of having a violation on my record if I
decide to get a flying job in the future? How seriously do employers
look at violations? Is it a thing where I won't even get called in
for an interview if I have one on my application or will they normally
call me in so I can explain things in an interview?

3. Any rough idea how it affects insurance rates if there's a
violation (like XX% or something)?

4. Is it worth fighting the FAA- how often do folks actually win?
I've only heard horror stories and it seems like a GA pilot really
doesn't have much of a chance.

5. How negotiable is the FAA regarding the 6-month suspension- have
any of you been able to talk them into something else like a shorter
time (30 days or 60 days) or maybe community service?

I would appreciate any comments from folks that have been through this
before (vs just speculation).

Are you an AOPA member? I don't know the answers to your questions, but
if you are an AOPA member it would be worth a call to them.

Matt

jls wrote:
"Blanche" wrote in message
...

Don't talk to us.

Why not?

Contact AOPA Legal Services NOW! Do not discuss

anything here -- it's public and can be used against you.


What did he possibly say that could be used against him? He never admitted
to doing anything wrong or unlawful.

Not yet, but the thread could easily develop into details that might not
be helpful.


Call an aviation lawyer if you're not a member of AOPA Legal Services.

Now.


Paranoia can destroy ya.

Yes, but "only the paranoid survive" to quote a famous businessman.


Well, maybe, but then there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to discuss
his problem with these NG's.

A lawyer could give you lots of reasons not to have such a discussion here.


We had a series of violations charged at our airport and everybody got that
ol' time religion all of a sudden. An FAA agent came and carded a bunch of
us and wrote several people up. He was very courteous and fair about it,
and iirc everybody who got into compliance, except for a student pilot who
had stolen a 172 and had 3 other souls aboard w/o a signoff, was let off the
hook, once they began walking the straight and narrow. It made me rather
admire the FAA for their reasonableness.

The trouble is that the FAA isn't reasonable or unreasonable, its
various employees are or are not reasonable. The complication is that
you don't know in advance which one will show up.


Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

What did he possibly say that could be used against him? He never
admitted
to doing anything wrong or unlawful.

Not yet, but the thread could easily develop into details that might
not
be helpful.

That would require an FAA employee, deciding to "take a shot" and spend
hours browsing all the discussion groups on the net to try and connect
facts posed under a pseudonym to their violation case. If they have
proposed a sanction, that means they feel they have the facts to meet
their burden of proof. Why would they spend such time? All orig poster
has to do is change the date and location of the violation, and the type
aircraft. This denies the FAA any ability to prove the poster is the
violator, as if such evidence to be potentially introduced in litigation
were not rather bizarre and all that important.

Fred F.