User Fees

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

wrote in message
news:GpM_d.9280$GI6.1852@trnddc05...
"Dude" wrote:

Still, what complete idiotic, power hungry, stupid, short sighted
etc.
etc. etc. thinks user fees are a fix?

I wittily replied:

The complete idiotic, power hungry, stupid, short sighted etc. etc.
etc.
administration we elected.


"Dude" retorted:

Oh, let's not be partisan. Can't we agree both sides have demonstrated
enough foolishness?

To which I say:

Not partisan, just the facts. In our democracy, we get the government we
elect. If we elect morons, why are we surprised that they govern (and
set
FAA policy) moronically?

If something other than a moron ran for public office I would gladly vote
for them.

The ultimate paradox of democracy. Only people unfit to have power put
themselves forward to be elected and we give them the power.

This debate on user fees is interesting and having gone through the same
experience in Europe where the airlines are claiming that they subsidise GA,
I know the way it going to turn out.

What never gets taken into the math is the money spend by ordinary people
through GA training themselves to be pilots which the airlines cherry pick.

Imagine what it would be like if the airlines had to pay all the costs of
pilot training from ab initio.

The airlines get a really good deal from GA and rather than being subsidised
by GA, I think GA subsidises the airlines.

However the blind cannot see!

cb

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message
m...

"Vaughn" wrote in message
...

"Colin W Kingsbury" wrote in message
link.net...


Up here in Taxachusetts there's a long-standing feud over tolls on the
Massachusetts Turnpike. The law that authorized the bond issue to build
the
pike said, tolls will be charged until the bonds are paid off, then the
tolls shall end. Well, the bonds were paid off more than 10 years ago,
but
the tollbooths persist.

Same deal here in Florida. Florida's turnpike was paid off about a
decade
ago, the promise was always that the tolls would go away when the bonds
were
paid. The reality was that they instead drastically increased the tolls.

The basic lesson here is that there is no such thing as a temporary
tax.

Vaughn

Same story in Illinois.

Gentlemen,

You guys fought the war of independence to get away from unfair taxation.

why have you surrendered now?

On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:34:38 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

Has anyone ever taken the Massachussetts to court about keeping the tolls?
Many years ago there was a 10 cent toll on the Southern State Parkway on
Long Island, NY just before it reached the Cross County Parkway. One day
they raised the toll to 25 cents. One of the commuters was a lawyer who
looked up the statute authorizing the toll. The toll was supposed to go
away once the parkway had been paid for. It had. He sued. The toll booth
was removed.

This is Massachusetts... Trust me, you really don't want to go there.

"Peter Clark" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 03:34:38 -0000, Marty Shapiro
wrote:

Has anyone ever taken the Massachussetts to court about keeping the
tolls?

This is Massachusetts... Trust me, you really don't want to go there.


....sorry, I was laughing so hard I couldn't type. Massachusetts courts? I
suppose you mean the same one that found out that a 300-year-old state
constitution written by THE PILGRIMS actually required the state to permit
gay marriage. Whether gay marriage is right or wrong is an entirely
different issue, but if they can find it in our constitution (which
pre-dates the US one and is rooted in the Massachusetts General Court formed
in 1691), then the constitution clearly means whatever they want it to mean,
which is to say that it means nothing at all. I in fact narrowly favor gay
marriage, but I am also opposed to gun control, and the Massachusetts
constitution clearly endorses the right of the people to keep and bear arms
(with no reference to the militia, and in fact legal scholars increasingly
agree that the Founders intended the 2nd Amendment as an "individual
right"). But in order for me to get a pistol permit in this state, I need to
prove that I have a uniquely compelling need for it. The fact that I live in
a neighborhood that is openly patrolled by a violent street gang with links
to Al Qaeda is not by itself sufficient. So like I said, clearly the
Constitution means whatever the legislature and courts, who are largely on
the same side, want it to mean.

-cwk.

wrote in message
news:GpM_d.9280$GI6.1852@trnddc05...
snip
Not partisan, just the facts. In our democracy, we get the government we
elect. If we elect morons, why are we surprised that they govern (and set
FAA policy) moronically?

I believe the cynics version of the quote is that "we get the government
that we (collectively) deserve"

Most people base their votes on prejudice, habit, image, and name
recognition or contrived and diversionary issues like fear, abortion, gay
marriage, or get tough law and order that have little real impact on voters
real lives but make them feel they are deciding important issues.

We allow ourselves to be seduced because we want to be seduced, it gives us
the moral high ground that allows us to bitch later.

Blue skies to all

snip

Upon which I am happy to point out to "Dude":

Actually, if you fill a couple of seats in a single engine piston airplane
you are probably below Southwest's average fuel per occupied seat-mile by
a
good margin.

That said, a $.01/gallon extra tax on aviation fuel will not cover the
cost
of the ATC system, which in any case is far more than an average of $20
per
IFR flight.

So Dude is saying:

Now you have gone off the reservation. I never claimed it would.

("Colin W Kingsbury" wrote)
snip
. But in order for me to get a pistol permit in this state, I need
to
prove that I have a uniquely compelling need for it. The fact that I live
in
a neighborhood that is openly patrolled by a violent street gang with
links
to Al Qaeda is not by itself sufficient. So like I said, clearly the
Constitution means whatever the legislature and courts, who are largely on
the same side, want it to mean.


Minnesota (The state where NOTHING is allowed) is a close second to Mass.

As far as your street gangs go, I wonder if GW's "security" initiatives will
ever get down to the local street level. GW has adopted a Wyatt Earp (clean
up the West) mentality as far a terrorists go, and poof - no more attacks
....for now.

We lived downtown(!!) for 5 years during the "Murder-apolis" years of the
mid 90's, shootings and stabbings all around us. (Almost 100 murders per
year. We past Miami, Boston and DC, a few more slayings and Detroit was
catchable). Saw a banger reloading his gun while strolling through our
parking lot one morning ...time to move. Ahhh, sterile suburban townhouse
security :-)

Loathing street gangs, fearing Gulags.


Montblack