most anti-aviation city in the nation

wayne, i feel your pain, just like i do for the chapt member involved
with this episode of justice denied. while, it probably won't bring
hombuilding to a total halt in the county, it will just force some of
us to be more discrete in our activites. i work at a commercial
facilitie that could be used for assembly and construction of aircraft
components. i can't help but think that it all revolves around
property value and city taxes collected for that property value. they
want every last penny they can squeeze outta ya so they can pay for
their over zealous city expansion and national football franchise and
stadium upkeep, not to mention interstate highway expansion, while the
intercity traffic becomes longer daily grid-lock. and don't forget, as
a city, we are trying to better dc's record for cut'n and kill'n this
year. thats expensive too, u know. finally, wayne, our chapt pres
lives in a different county, not affected by this ruling, yet! but
since he has a very nice, brand new shop, with an almost completed
midget mustang still needing work, he has concerns that his local gov
might go over the stupid end, also. u just get the feeling u r being
treated like the ultra lite folks that used to operate on the fringe or
outside the legal faa guide lines. i guess i am more concerned that
eaa hd qts did not jump on this one issue immediately and do something
but instead, there has been less than zero response from them. so far,
we have had no problems from the insurance companies about vehicles of
any sort, including aircraft. maybe they too busy worrying about
hurricane damage to let something like aluminum or pop rivets concern
them for the moment. as u know, there r some of us more into the
building than the flying so it strikes a cord when u feel singled out,
for no reason. i been flying since '56 and building since '89 and as
far as i know, it has never hurt anyone.


blackbird wrote:
Hi guys,

My name is Wayne McCullough and I am a current EAA chapter president.
My homeowners insurance was cancelled because of a current Kolb project
being worked on at my home....23 acres in Effingham County
Georgia........No runway allowed, no storage of aircraft of any
kind......

And then I read this, and Duval County is Jacksonville,
Florida........Amazing what the politicians can do behind closed
doors.....

Eaa national has not responded to any of my e-mails as of yet.....All
of this I found out last Monday......


Been doing experimentals for 12 years, and I did not know I was not
living in America anymore.

"Lou" wrote in message
ups.com...
I read the same thing Jim, but I have the question of:
greatav8or, how do you know all this information? Are you the person in
question?

No I was not the guy in question. I was just trying to interpret the
legalese, and that is how it read to me.

I do not think that any city can regulate what you do behind CLOSED doors,
as long as it is not commercial in nature.

The other guy that had his insurance canceled has a hard lick, but there is
basis from the department of insurance and the fire marshal against
manufacturing and repair of aircraft without fire suppression. If he were
to install sprinklers and fire rated separation between his work area and
the rest of the house, he probably would not have a problem getting
insurance, but the premiums could be higher, based on the type of activity
going on in that higher risk environment.
--
Jim in NC

"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:
I read the same thing Jim, but I have the question of:
greatav8or, how do you know all this information? Are you the person in
question?

The first paragraph (a) addresses parking and storage, and that has the
"completely closed" clause.

The second paragraph (b) addresses working on your airplane, and that is
prohibited.

I'm a little surprised that something like this could be passed in Jax
FL. I lived there up until a couple years ago, and I didn't think of
city hall as... well, there's no nice way to state what I think of this.

The EAA had better get ahold of this case, and fight it all the way to the
SCOTUS. If they don't, they don't have a hair on their butt, and it will
likely cause me to drop my membership.

Everyone write the EAA.

Criminal. That is the only work I can come up with to describe this act.
--
Jim in NC

It does make you wonder. If this is as true as it reads, then it raises
much more questions then homebuilding. I can't wait to see the
homebuilder retaleate when he calls the police on granpa building a
model plane with his grandson, Dad and son's shooting off Estes
rockest, or my favorite, handcuff the kiddies fly the kites assembled
in the living room. It cost him money to defend himself, time to spend
the city's money on their own stupidity.
Lou

Morgans wrote:
"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
...
Lou wrote:
I read the same thing Jim, but I have the question of:
greatav8or, how do you know all this information? Are you the person in
question?
The first paragraph (a) addresses parking and storage, and that has the
"completely closed" clause.

The second paragraph (b) addresses working on your airplane, and that is
prohibited.

I'm a little surprised that something like this could be passed in Jax
FL. I lived there up until a couple years ago, and I didn't think of
city hall as... well, there's no nice way to state what I think of this.

The EAA had better get ahold of this case, and fight it all the way to the
SCOTUS. If they don't, they don't have a hair on their butt, and it will
likely cause me to drop my membership.

Everyone write the EAA.

Criminal. That is the only work I can come up with to describe this act.

Boneheaded would be a better word, or maybe just ignorant.

Here are a couple links for the city council website:

http://citycirc.coj.net/coj/COJBillL...Bill=2006-0543

http://www.coj.net/City+Council/default.htm

The first has information about the bill. If you read the summary link,
it talks about outdoors vs enclosed space. Somehow this got mixed up
along the way. Personally I don't see the difference between tinkering
with your regular boat, motorcycle, hotrod in your driveway vs starting
up your airboat or airplane... for a few minutes... with reasonable
precaution, courtesy, common sense... I'm preaching to the choir here.

I wonder if the city council is under the impression that homebuilt
airplane construction is like Cheech and Chong's Santa's Workshop
(pounding and hammering and pounding all night man).

On second thought, I take back "ignorant," that too generous.
"Boneheaded" is just about right.

Oh! The second webpage has contact information.

Your right Jim, that means you must assemble the kite inside the house
not outside. But can you fly either one?

Lou wrote:
Your right Jim, that means you must assemble the kite inside the house
not outside. But can you fly either one?

Unfortunately, you're not quite right! The original intent appears to
be what you just said. Reread paragraph (b) of the bill as it is right
now (awaiting the Mayor's signature):

"Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering
flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential
districts..."

They left off the indoors part.

actually, the way it reads, u can't assemble the kite, so flying it is
unimportant.
Lou wrote:
Your right Jim, that means you must assemble the kite inside the house
not outside. But can you fly either one?

Don W wrote:

"I own this property and will do what I damn well please on it" will
not get you very far even in rural areas.

It sounded like the ordinance that the first poster was referring to got
passed specifically because a home builder got in a ****ing contest with
a neighbor, and the city sided with the neighbor.


I was just in my garage...with the door close...quietly installing taxi
and landing lights when I recalled something. 20/20 or one of those
investigative reporting shows did an expose of neighbors getting into
legal battles. It must have been a year or two ago. One of the
contestants was a guy building an airplane (amoung other things) in his
front yard. I do remember that they were somewhere in Florida, and I
believe it was Jacksonville.

In this particular case, I'm not sure I would defend the guy to much.
He had rusting CRAP piled around everywhere. The parts that weren't
rusting were corroding. The rest was being eaten by rats and other
vermin. I'm working from memory here, but he was supposedly building a
Cozy while restoring some sort of jet. I'm wanting to say an Me162, but
not sure. He had all sorts of pieces he had collected strewn about the
yard with the grass and bushes growing up through them. I mean this guy
was a basket case. When asked to clean it up, he just got
stupid...going so far as building a composite 'statue' of a man showing
his butt to the neighbors. I quote 'statue', because an artist he
ain't. Very crude and cartoonish artwork.

He had been told by the city many times to clean it up, but chose to
make an ass of himself instead. The fact that he calls himself building
an airplane just makes us look bad. Personally, I break out in hives if
I see rust on my airframe. I don't know how anyone investing the energy
to build an airplane could let it rot like he was doing.

--
This is by far the hardest lesson about freedom. It goes against
instinct, and morality, to just sit back and watch people make
mistakes. We want to help them, which means control them and their
decisions, but in doing so we actually hurt them (and ourselves)."

"Jim Carriere" wrote in message
news Snip

"Repairing, testing, operation, constructing, modifying or altering
flying craft and airboats shall be prohibited in all residential
districts..."

They left off the indoors part.

I'd play the technicality card. "I would never repair, test, etc. etc. etc
a *flying* craft in a residential district. As a matter of fact, I
absolutely refuse to make in-flight repairs."

Alternately, I'd call the FAA and let them take a shot at it. I'm not sure
the city government can dictate where you operate a flying craft. I think
that's governed by the FAA.

KB