Airplanes and Brakes?

"Jim Logajan" wrote in message

So far all I've ever flown is a Schweizer SGS 2-33. Not only can't I turn
it with the brake, I can't reach the brake during taxi anyway since I'm
outside the cockpit during those times. ;-)

You've never landed and then "taxied to parking"?
BT, CFI-G

On Sep 15, 12:44*pm, "Ol Shy & Bashful" wrote:
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

A lot of students and/or renters aren't thinking about brake
burnout. They've grown up driving cars that had pretty good brakes, so
they treat the airplane's brakes the same. They often don't know what
the "L" in "PRNDL" is for, or the "3-2-1" in "PRND321." They never use
those settings when going down hills, or if they have a standard, they
use the brakes on it, too, instead of gearing down. So brakes become
the fix for most instances of speed control.
So they taxi around with too much power and use the brakes to fix
that. Or land long and fast and use the brakes to fix that, too,
except that the wings are still lifting and there's little weight and
traction on the tires, so the tires suffer as well as the brakes. And
sooner or later the surface conditions are less than good and the
brakes can't fix the problem anymore and some damage ensues.
When I was instructing I was always asking the student to pull
that throttle back, please, and stop riding the brakes. Brakes that
are held on during taxi get very hot and their metallic compounds
start to weld to the disc and raise little burrs that cut the
daylights out of the pads. Those $160 discs wear out much faster, even
aside from the burrs. Tires that have to resist the thrust constantly
scrub a little and wear out quickly. And with the thrust line at the
prop hub and the drag at the surface, a rotational couple is created
that pulls the nose down so that the propeller, which is turning too
fast and moving much more air than necessary, sucks up all the little
rocks and other hard bits that eat the propeller before its time. Such
sloppy piloting costs a lot, see, and it only makes the aircraft owner
raise his rates to cover the maintenance expenses. A private owner
that's had to pay for this sort of thing becomes acutely aware of his
bad habits.

Dan

On 2008-09-15 11:44:12 -0700, "Ol Shy & Bashful" said:

I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

Naw. In fact, I challenge my students not to use brakes even when they
are flying! :-)

(Sorry, OSB. Couldn't help it.)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

When renting, on most landings ('xcept the last of the day), I'll land
short and brake hard (just hard, no squealing) to minimize hobbs time
when taxing back for departure by making the first turnoff...
T



Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:
I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

"BT" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message

So far all I've ever flown is a Schweizer SGS 2-33. Not only can't I
turn it with the brake, I can't reach the brake during taxi anyway
since I'm outside the cockpit during those times. ;-)

You've never landed and then "taxied to parking"?

Sure - but have yet to sit in the aircraft during "taxi to parking"
because the 2-33 is a monowheel glider. (Caveats on the monowheel.
It has small wheels near the wingtips and a small tailwheel.)

After landing one gets out, waits for the tow vehicle (in our case a
riding lawn mower) and someone has to pick up the low wing and level it
and then walk alongside the glider while mower pulls the glider along.
Steering is by walking faster or slower than the mower. It's a grass
strip so trying to manually move the glider more than a few dozen feet
is a chore. This is the field:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...16522&t=h&z=17

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

"BT" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message

So far all I've ever flown is a Schweizer SGS 2-33. Not only can't I
turn it with the brake, I can't reach the brake during taxi anyway
since I'm outside the cockpit during those times. ;-)

You've never landed and then "taxied to parking"?

Sure - but have yet to sit in the aircraft during "taxi to parking"
because the 2-33 is a monowheel glider. (Caveats on the monowheel.
It has small wheels near the wingtips and a small tailwheel.)


he meant rolling it to the tiedown after touchdown..



Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote in
:

"BT" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message

So far all I've ever flown is a Schweizer SGS 2-33. Not only can't I
turn it with the brake, I can't reach the brake during taxi anyway
since I'm outside the cockpit during those times. ;-)

You've never landed and then "taxied to parking"?

Sure - but have yet to sit in the aircraft during "taxi to parking"
because the 2-33 is a monowheel glider. (Caveats on the monowheel.
It has small wheels near the wingtips and a small tailwheel.)


he meant rolling it to the tiedown after touchdown..

Ah - I misunderstood - no. See, there is this shallow drainage ditch in the
grass between the tie down area and the landing field that would make for
some nasty pranging at anything above walking speed. Plus the tow plane is
typically too close to the tie down area to do that safely.

Jim Logajan wrote in
:

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Jim Logajan wrote in
:

"BT" wrote:
"Jim Logajan" wrote in message

So far all I've ever flown is a Schweizer SGS 2-33. Not only can't
I turn it with the brake, I can't reach the brake during taxi
anyway since I'm outside the cockpit during those times. ;-)

You've never landed and then "taxied to parking"?

Sure - but have yet to sit in the aircraft during "taxi to parking"
because the 2-33 is a monowheel glider. (Caveats on the monowheel.
It has small wheels near the wingtips and a small tailwheel.)


he meant rolling it to the tiedown after touchdown..

Ah - I misunderstood - no. See, there is this shallow drainage ditch
in the grass between the tie down area and the landing field that
would make for some nasty pranging at anything above walking speed.
Plus the tow plane is typically too close to the tie down area to do
that safely.


Yeah, it's not something you can do just anywhere!


Bertie

On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:55:09 -0700 (PDT), Dudley Henriques
wrote:

The way I would present this
issue is to simply say that brakes are put on the airplane to hold it
for the run up check and for use ONLY when your pre-planned use of
aerodynamic forces available to you, or your steering capabilities
won't make the necessary change in direction.
In other words, you shouldn't be using them on takeoff, landing, and
even while taxiing if your planning is adequate for the situation.
I like the general rule that dictates that brakes on an airplane
should be used as little as possible.

Dudley Henriques

you know that I posted a comment along this exact line of thought
about a month ago I got bagged by nearly everyone for over a week.
I'm still correct in what I wrote and you evidently are in agreement.

:-)
Stealth Pilot

On Sep 15, 1:55*pm, wrote:
Ol Shy & Bashful wrote:

I'm deligthted to see I'm managing to get some arguments and
discussion going. And if you notice, No Profanity?
I challenge my students to learn to taxi without brakes. and I come
down hard if they beat up the airplane with unecessary braking instead
of staying ahead of the airplane. (sometimes even with profanity! Can
you imagine that?)
How about you? If you had to pay for the brakes, tires, and
maintenance, would YOU beat up the airplane?
Ol S&B

I fly a Tiger.

Got any suggestions on how to turn without brakes?

Back when I was flying 172's I never found it necessary to use the brakes
unless I had to make a REALLY tight turn, so I see your point.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Jim
Well ya got me there! But even so, careful use of flight controls can
certainly mitigate brake use. I started flying the old AA-1 back in
the early 70's and it wasn't much different than taxiing one of the
old Volpar Beech conversions that required braking in place of nose
wheel steering.
Ol S&B