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#1
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I think badges do serve a useful purpose to soaring, but I'm guessing
that Al's comment is more geared toward the paperwork, documentation side of badges rather than the benefit that having a structured seat of goals established Badges keep many pilots focused on soaring where a lack of established goals and objectives would allow some pilots to become less focused, then bored, and then less active in soaring, then no longer soaring pilots. |
#2
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Thats part of it Mark.
At the end of the day you fly for your own satisfaction. If getting badges is your bag baby then so be it. Mine is just the shear fun excitement and fear involved in long distance flying with a bit of Acro thrown in for fun. Al "Mark Zivley" wrote in message ... I think badges do serve a useful purpose to soaring, but I'm guessing that Al's comment is more geared toward the paperwork, documentation side of badges rather than the benefit that having a structured seat of goals established Badges keep many pilots focused on soaring where a lack of established goals and objectives would allow some pilots to become less focused, then bored, and then less active in soaring, then no longer soaring pilots. |
#3
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Silver Badge Fun (?)
First of all, I don't know if "bollocking" is a nasty word,
but I certainly wouldn't want one. Next, I want to make it clear that my main issue is that the rules seem to be complex to account for the old "barograph and people watching" style of badge flying, and have a lot of requirements that are superceded by GPS loggers. I also want to make clear that there is a large drop in numbers as we go from local flying to XC, and I think that some of it is because the Silver is daunting, and made moreso by the complexity of the rules and the realities like mine. It's also important to note that a Silver badge is a way to qualify for Sports regionals and that plus gold 300km gets one qualified for other classes. I have heard my own club members naysay the badge program because of the complexity, and when my PW-5 syndicate talked about the Avenal regionals, I was surprised how few had Silver badges and wouldn't even enter a sport class if it had been available (in the 1-26 or 2-33). So I really like the badge program for encouraging X-C, and would like to see what I think are more consistent rules which make common sense and are simpler (mostly with regard to gps). I think this would ease that transition from local to X-C flying. First, despite the threat of a "good bollocking," if a pilot does wander 50km from start and then lands (without having any declaration), that meets the Silver. If one disagrees with this rule, please start a new thread. I interpret this to mean that Silver is more about the X-C skill than the finding the exact turnpoint and doing photos, but also that this was the only way to validate (historically) that the flight was done. Only the altitude of the landing airport was known (how can one show from a baro trace that the pilot was above the airport at X feet?). If the pilot did an out and return without a declaration, and took a photo of some random point, how can it be verified? A gps logger solves these problems. We don't need to use the airport altitude, we can find a point 50km away and see what it's altitude was. We don't need to look at random photos, we know where the glider went. Does it make common sense that a pilot who flies 50km out, then makes it halfway back and lands out has less skill than the pilot who landed at the 50km away point? No. If one ends up over the landout airport with altitude gain but then lands there with too much loss, does this show less skill than a pilot who lands at an airport 300 feet higher but never made any gain? No. Is a wandering flight to a 50km away landing really better than a wandering 50km x 2 out and return? No. If you think the 50km undeclared flight to a landing is wrong and would like this eliminated, I'd understand, and this would make the rules consistent. Then there is a goal flight required in the Silver just like the Gold (which very specifically says pre-declared O&R or triangle). But I think the Silver distance is NOT a Silver goal flight, and should not be treated as one. I think the inconsistency violates common sense. I think that a pilot who can show on a gps that there were two points during a flight which were 50km apart and met the altitude rules has earned Silver distance. That pilot either flew twice that distance during the flight or had a landout. Either way, that pilot's flight was just as noteworthy as the pilot that wandered exactly 50km away and landed. GPS loggers allow us to validate and recognise this flight. |
#4
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In my opinion it's silly for the Silver Badge flight documentation to be
more onerous than the documentation of a flight in a (US) regional or national competition. Declare it Fly it Turn in the gps log Put the pin on your funny hat Brent "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message ... First of all, I don't know if "bollocking" is a nasty word, but I certainly wouldn't want one. Next, I want to make it clear that my main issue is that the rules seem to be complex to account for the old "barograph and people watching" style of badge flying, and have a lot of requirements that are superceded by GPS loggers. I also want to make clear that there is a large drop in numbers as we go from local flying to XC, and I think that some of it is because the Silver is daunting, and made moreso by the complexity of the rules and the realities like mine. It's also important to note that a Silver badge is a way to qualify for Sports regionals and that plus gold 300km gets one qualified for other classes. I have heard my own club members naysay the badge program because of the complexity, and when my PW-5 syndicate talked about the Avenal regionals, I was surprised how few had Silver badges and wouldn't even enter a sport class if it had been available (in the 1-26 or 2-33). So I really like the badge program for encouraging X-C, and would like to see what I think are more consistent rules which make common sense and are simpler (mostly with regard to gps). I think this would ease that transition from local to X-C flying. First, despite the threat of a "good bollocking," if a pilot does wander 50km from start and then lands (without having any declaration), that meets the Silver. If one disagrees with this rule, please start a new thread. I interpret this to mean that Silver is more about the X-C skill than the finding the exact turnpoint and doing photos, but also that this was the only way to validate (historically) that the flight was done. Only the altitude of the landing airport was known (how can one show from a baro trace that the pilot was above the airport at X feet?). If the pilot did an out and return without a declaration, and took a photo of some random point, how can it be verified? A gps logger solves these problems. We don't need to use the airport altitude, we can find a point 50km away and see what it's altitude was. We don't need to look at random photos, we know where the glider went. Does it make common sense that a pilot who flies 50km out, then makes it halfway back and lands out has less skill than the pilot who landed at the 50km away point? No. If one ends up over the landout airport with altitude gain but then lands there with too much loss, does this show less skill than a pilot who lands at an airport 300 feet higher but never made any gain? No. Is a wandering flight to a 50km away landing really better than a wandering 50km x 2 out and return? No. If you think the 50km undeclared flight to a landing is wrong and would like this eliminated, I'd understand, and this would make the rules consistent. Then there is a goal flight required in the Silver just like the Gold (which very specifically says pre-declared O&R or triangle). But I think the Silver distance is NOT a Silver goal flight, and should not be treated as one. I think the inconsistency violates common sense. I think that a pilot who can show on a gps that there were two points during a flight which were 50km apart and met the altitude rules has earned Silver distance. That pilot either flew twice that distance during the flight or had a landout. Either way, that pilot's flight was just as noteworthy as the pilot that wandered exactly 50km away and landed. GPS loggers allow us to validate and recognise this flight. |
#5
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To answer a few other posts...
Yes I'm now hooked on X-C. I now understand the idea of interthermal sink. When I was flying the 1-26 and 2-33, penetration was such a problem that X-C days were few and far between, and X-C was less a matter of skill than weather. High L/D and penetration really do help for creating hope and X-C. Having few soarable days can be very disappointing. Lower performing ships are great trainers, but I'd encourage new pilots to step up quickly for (mainly) psychological reasons. The PW-5 was perfect for this (no ballast, no flaps, no retracts, easy to assemble). I have two 1-26 X-C and nine PW-5 X-C. A trailer and easy-to-assemble glider are a big deal. Still dunno what the fuss is about automatic hookups though...the manual ones seem to work fine so far and they are right in plain view and easy to inspect... My Volkslogger had some courses in it, and I had declared one by pressing buttons. I changed my mind, disconnected power, and wrote a written declaration. I reconnected power and flew the flight. Much to my chagrin, the logger had the old declaration on the .IGC file. Yep, I tested this a couple more times. Bad feature. I've now eliminated all courses from the logger. Problem solved, no more electronic declarations. Since you have to provide the .igc file with the paperwork, and the electronic declaration is more recent, no way around this otherwise. Also be careful because a small power interruption can cause this same redeclaration. I use a seperate battery for the VL (actually a drill battery). I like the idea of a written declaration anyway so my towpilot and crew know the plan. Yes the towpilot is usually my OO. Technically I think tampered with means and includes removing power from the VL. Also, if you run out of memory before the OO disconnects the logger, how can the OO verify the trace? So I have the OO note the time the logger is disconnected and then it is consistent with an uninterrupted .IGC file. I don't have the slightest idea how one could tamper with an .IGC file (isn't this like a public key cipher? No-one has figured out how to crack these, right? Factoring two large primes' product? Yikes), but apparently this is a concern to someone. Landing witnesses? OK this is also just silly. Violates common sense when using a GPS logger. Way back in the good ol' days, maybe you could convince some farmer to lift your glider on the back of a trailer and drive it over flat ground to the next airport. Unbroken baro in hand, your OO got suspicious and called the FAI and asked them to change the rule. But with a logger? If the logger was put in the glider with the pilot, and the towpilot released, what, was there some kind of midair pilot switch? OK, assume no-one saw the landing, but the GPS says you were there and the .IGC file is uninterrupted (leave the battery connected until your non-ssa crew and you get back to the home field and the OO towpilot disconnects it). How do you fake a longer flight? What does the landing witness add to this that a towpilot release statement would not? Common sense means a towpilot release statement should be a fine substitute for a landing witness. How about GPS altitudes? I suspect all new GPS's will have WAAS, and if it's good enough for the 767 landing 0/0, it'll be good enough for us. 3-7 meters of accuracy is darned good. I'm betting Garmin can easily be swayed to put .IGC capability in their $200 GPS's and this will be a non-issue quickly. Using pressure altitudes for badges and records is simply outdated. The FAI I'm certain will see this and accept either form of proof, once the first WAAS and .igc producing gps is manufactured. |
#6
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The badge program really did keep me going, but the
complexity was really a downside. Also, hearing about a pilot attempt an out and return, but then make a landout less than 50km away from start, and not get credit for a Silver distance (I think the pilot made the turnpoint first, but am not sure) was disappointing. I thought the pilot had made a good Silver distance, and didn't think this should be treated as a Silver goal flight and therefore not count. Keep in mind that declaring an out and return from a certain turnpoint means one must make the turnpoint at start too, not just tow release. This is another complexity that would be eliminated by a change allowing post-flight turnpoint selection for distance (not goal) flights. |
#7
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#8
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I think pilots can get the same things from soaring on their
own as from the Badge program, but I am grateful it was there for me. And man am I grateful for thebadgelady. Thats part of it Mark. At the end of the day you fly for your own satisfaction. If getting badges is your bag baby then so be it. Mine is just the shear fun excitement and fear involved in long distance flying with a bit of Acro thrown in for fun. Al There are some other motivations for me than own satisfaction. I'd like to fly in competitions and Silver plus gold distance is required (For me this also means Diamond goal. I've thought about this so much I almost think they're the same.) Is there a way to fly in a regional without this? I like publicizing my home gliderport. Badge and record flights seem to be an accepted way to generate publicity. Sure I like having a record or badge, but getting more people to come out and soar is even better. I think it is a concise way of explaining experience. And it provides a focus for discussion about aspects of gliding. When I talk about these badges, each element is interesting to newcomers. Lastly, for me it provides structure to continue developing my pilot skills, and select courses and tasks that are reasonable. I've come to realize that flying the PW-5 great distances is pretty hard (although William Snead might disagree). So I'm being pulled into interesting tasks and ideas. Without the Gold altitude, I wouldn't have tried to max out a thermal a few weeks ago. The Diamond goal has really got me thinking about routes over good thermalling terrain. Anyway, this IS my bag, baby. Yeahhh! Thanks to all you cool cats who've put your mummblies out there to make this a swinging sport. Yeahhh! Smashing! P.S. I don't use the word "fear." I call it a "moment of great concern." And it isn't a "cloud," it's an "area of limited visibility." It isn't "expensive dental work" it's a "firm landing." I don't say "he brought most of the field back with him in the gear well," I say he "landed out." Mark "Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes." |
#9
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Mark,
Congratulations on getting your Silver - It only gets better! Sounds like you managed to find all the ways to not get it first! Actually, now with GPS loggers, it's really easy. But you definitely have to understand the rules, jump through the hoops (in the right direction), and finish the paperwork. That's why it's a badge, after all. Otherwise, just go out and fly 50 km and be happy! (What's wrong, Al, scared you might make a mistake?). While on the subject of badges, I wonder why we don't have any speed badges to go with the distance ones - since speed is what is now one of the main objectives of XC soaring. Something like 50 kph (30 mph) over 50 km for Silver Speed, 100 kph (60mph) over 150 km for Gold Speed, and 150 kph (90 mph) over 300 km for Diamond Speed. Just a thought... Kirk 66 |
#10
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