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#41
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 23:04:50 UTC+2 schreef Bastoune:
Hi Senna, I bought a Pegase right at 50 hours and really love the ship. While the ailerons and elevator is not automatic, my ship was fitted with Wekeslink (spelling?) sleeves on the ailerons and airbrake connections which significantly ease the connection job inside the turtle deck. I have a one man rigger and handling and rigging the wings by myself is not an issue. I really the handling of the ship. I am not sure what these go for in Europe. Good luck! I'd look for a one man rigging aid as well. I have seen 2 Pegase for sale at € 15k and seems fair, but without 8.33KHz radio, so will need to replace that before I fly anyway. One thing I did notice in the Pegase is that when I'm in a tight thermal, as I usually do, I can't seem to fly slow enough. For example: turning left requires you to pull the stick backwards and slightly right, but I can't seem to pull it right enough so I keep flying at 85-90 km/h in a thermal and can't go much slower. I do fly at nearly minimum takeoff weight. |
#42
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 21:39:14 UTC+2 schreef Martin Gregorie:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2018 06:34:17 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Op dinsdag 27 maart 2018 14:07:49 UTC+2 schreef : I bought a Pegase a couple of years ago. I don't have that many flights in it yet but here are my observations. Rigging can be easy or difficult. Much depends on the the surface of the ground. On pavement or flat grass gravel it goes together pretty easily. Uneven terrain can present a problem as everything has to be aligned just right. The wings are "bendy" so it takes greater movement at the tips to get the spars to move than you might be used to. I find the elevator connection "(L'Hotellier) to be a bit of a pain as access is limited. I don't know who designed the access hole for the control connections but it must have been somebody with small hands and arms (Trump?)and the connections are made by feel. I think you are looking at a substantial increase in performance over the other gliders your are considering and would recommend one if you can afford it. Peg vs. ASW 19? I never flew a 19 and there are conflicting opinions. I moved up from an ASW 15 and the difference, especially at higher speeds is quite noticeable. The Peg handles very well and there are many people who swear by (not at) this glider. I'm becoming one of them. Search this group for Pegase opinions. There are a few threads. Support is a consideration. I'm not exactly sure what is going on but it seems there is a new owner. There are indeed a couple of Pegase for sale for 15k, but my French is very rusty (thank you Google Translate) and I'm curious how it compares to, say, the Libelle in rigging and flight. I have a fair amount of time in both, flying our club's Pegase 90 for about a two years, which included 5 attempts at a 300 goal flight and a team entry with another club member in a Regionals competition. First point: most Pegs are one of the four 101 subspecies, with differ in relatively minor structural details and were built with l'Hotellier control hookups. Our club Pegase is a 90, which is later than the 101s and has automatic hookup for all controls. Some 101Ds have been retro- fitted with automatic control hookups: one was bought last year by a club member. So, if you're offered a Peg 90 or one with automatic control hookups, if all other things equal, thats the one to go for. I agree with what mdfadden says about its flight characteristics: the Peg is very nice to fly and cruises well. Performance is similar to a Discus 1 but I found the Pegase more comfortable than a Discus and it certainly has a smaller rear blind spot: I could just see the tailplane tips while flying the Peg but never got near seeing that far round behind me in a Discus. Its a two pin wing system, so is much easier to rig than any of the single pin system gliders. The Peg 90 goes together pretty easily. I've never rigged a Peg with Hotelliers, but know from personal experience that the difficulty of groping inside a small, black hole while you hook up the controls is no different from an ASW-19 or 20, and not much fun to do. Despite using a single pin rigging system, Libelles are fairly easy to rig because everything is in clear view just behind the seat, so you never end up peering into the fuselage through a hole or or back through the baggage area to work out why the wing isn't going on. Libelles have light wings, so its never a problem getting help to rig or derig one. The airbrakes and elevator self-connect and the aileron connections are simple to use and very easy to check for a correct connection. Feel under the aileron drive lever and if you can feel end of the spring-loaded connector pin protruding from the bottom of the connection box, its correctly connected. Libelles have light, nicely balanced controls and are generally easy and enjoyable to fly. They give you all-round vision: I can see my rudder waggle when I kick it, ever when firmly strapped in. Yes, the airbrakes are a bit weak, but this is not a problem once you're used to them and is offset by good slipping behavior: it is easy to enter and exit a slip on a heading and, unless you deliberately change attitude in the slip, you'll come out with pretty much the same airspeed as you went in. Descent rate in a full-blooded slip is better than you'll achieve in a Peg because that razor-back tail boom creates a lot of drag when driven sideways through the air. For the same reason you'll quickly learn to keep the yaw string centered in a cruise. In my experience anyway, the Libelle is about the most spin-resistent single seat glider I've flown: I screwed up a zoomed entry to a thermal once in mine by being a second or two too late to start the push-over and roll into the turn. As the glider reached the attitude I wanted, I noticed the ASI was on the stall speed so, because I had plenty of height and everything felt OK, I just lowered the nose another 10 degrees and waited to see what happened. The Libelle mushed round 90 degrees while picking up speed and then climved away in the thermal. I never felt it was going to stall, drop a wing or spin. Watchpoints: - If you're thermalling in a tight turn with a lot of top aileron, you may find the inner aileron stalls. This gives a sudden roll into the turn. This feels a bit like a spin departure but without the nose drop. Simply centre the stick, which immediately unstalls the aileron and go on climbing in the thermal. - DO NOT winch launch a Libelle until you've had a thorough briefing from somebody who is familiar with winching them them. They have a tendency to snap-rotate as they come off the ground unless you have full forward trim set and and the stick pushed forward just past the trimmer setting, i.e. you're just starting to notice the trim spring resisting you. Do this correctly and the glider will unstick and climb gently in the same attitude until you have enough airspeed to rotate into full climb. This needs a fairly small stick movement, after which the launch has no other surprises. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I really like the Pegase in flight and seating is very comfortable with my height and posture. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. The original manufacturers do not longer exist and could end up paying for maintenance just like the DG and LS contract. |
#43
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#44
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified. Jim |
#45
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified. Jim How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight. |
#46
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
I had a '19 many years ago, a 1978 model, I think.Â* The canopy opened
forward but the panel was fixed to the fuselage.Â* I have seen some smaller people have a light rope attached or looped over one of the locking levers to pull down the canopy.Â* It's removed after the canopy is down and stowed. On 3/28/2018 6:07 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS: On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified. Jim How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight. -- Dan, 5J |
#47
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 16:24:54 UTC+2 schreef Dan Marotta:
I had a '19 many years ago, a 1978 model, I think.Â* The canopy opened forward but the panel was fixed to the fuselage.Â* I have seen some smaller people have a light rope attached or looped over one of the locking levers to pull down the canopy.Â* It's removed after the canopy is down and stowed. On 3/28/2018 6:07 AM, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Op woensdag 28 maart 2018 13:59:53 UTC+2 schreef JS: On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified. Jim How does the canopy open on those models? Is it a tilted canopy to the side? As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight. -- Dan, 5J Aah that makes it very interesting. If the canopy still opens forward, attaching a string would suit me perfectly |
#48
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 05:07:31 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
As I am fairly short and can hardly reach the Pegase canopy when I'm strapped tight. My club's Pegase has always had a piece of cord, around 35cm long with a knot on the bottom, that hangs from the right side canopy latch. That makes it easy to pull the canopy down far enough to get both hands on the latch levers to pull it closed and lock it. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
#49
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First glider to buy 10-20k euro's
On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 04:59:51 -0700, JS wrote:
On Wednesday, March 28, 2018 at 3:38:09 AM UTC-7, Martin Gregorie wrote: On Wed, 28 Mar 2018 02:45:59 -0700, Senna Van den Bosch wrote: Do you happen to have experience with the ASW19 and how they differ to the Pegase? I've never flown one, but the Peg, ASW-19 and ASW-20 cockpits are identical for all practical purposes. If you like one, you'll like the rest: if you look carefully under the Peg wing you can see where the ASW-19/20 NACA duct for cockpit ventilation has been filled in. This dates from when Centraire were building ASW-20s under license: the Peg fuselage is a minimally modified ASW-20 one (slightly larger diam tail boom, cockpit ventilation intake on the nose, some have a lifting panel. What scares me about owning a Pegase or Libelle is maintenance. Not a Libelle problem. Glasfaser hold the type cert, and have done ever since Glasflugel folded. They give excellent support. During this tear's annuals we discovered damage the the rear u/c axle and a non-approved (solid 20mm shaft) front u/c axle, ovbiously from a hard landing, but no mention in the log book. Glasfaser airmailed replacement axles + bolts & washers which arrived within a week. Situation isn't so clear for the Peg. -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org The Pegase cockpit has a panel that tilts up with the canopy, which the 19, 20A and early B did not have unless modified. Many (all?) ASW-20Fs, which were license built by Centrair before they ended the license and started to make the Pegase, had a lifting panel with the canopy attached to it, though I'm uncertain whether they all had it or just the later ones. Are there any ASW-20F on your side of the pond? -- Martin | martin at Gregorie | gregorie dot org |
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