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#1
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MOA??
I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA.
Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? |
#2
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Mitty wrote: I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA. Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? They won't clear you into a hot MOA unless they can provide separation. Usually, they cannot so your only option is to cancel when they refuse to provide an IFR clearance. Having said that, file and see what happens. |
#3
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"Mitty" wrote in message ... I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA. Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? One way or another they'll keep you out of it. Assuming you're traveling some distance they'll probably do nothing at departure. The departure controller may have no knowledge of the MOA and issue a clearance that enters it. But if it's hot as you approach it you'll get a new clearance limit. |
#4
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I'd agree that IFR is safer or at least provides more utility.
Passing thru various MOAs flying from RDU to LAL last weekend, some of the MOAs were hot but apparently the hot parts were smaller than the published limits. The controllers cleared me and others thru parts that must have been cool. At the same time, they kept traffic out of certain sections of the same MOA. We were all trying to avoid storms. Mitty wrote: I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA. Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? |
#5
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"Mitty" wrote in message ... I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA. Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? ATC owns the MOA. If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working). Which MOA is it? |
#6
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"John Doe" wrote in message link.net... ATC owns the MOA. In what way? If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA. File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. Not under IFR. ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working). They're not on ATC frequency. Which MOA is it? Falls 1. |
#7
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Airport is KBCK, Falls 1 MOA. Central Wisconsin, Green Bay sectional.
Actually, the advice I previously received here (from a couple of controllers IIRC) was correct: If the MOA is hot, ATC will not let you in IFR. If you can't cancel and go in VFR, you are SOL. In the KBCK case, I would consider going in VFR because it is very close to the edge of the MOA at one point. To double check, I called Center on the phone. The admin phone for both Chicago and Minneapolis centers is the same, so I ended up talking to a controller at Chicago. He said the same thing as above. Re the rest of your thoughts, that is all new to me. I have flown near a few hot MOAs while on an IFR clearance and have never heard Center talking to the military guys. I have also never read any idea that ATC would be working with the military guys. Is this just your theory? I have read a couple of articles on MOAs from the military viewpoint and the gist was that they are really scared of civilian traffic because they are moving so fast relative to us. In fact, I think in some cases we are such slow movers that their targeting radar suppresses our returns. On 7/5/2005 7:36 PM, John Doe wrote the following: "Mitty" wrote in message ... I have to try to KBCK next week for a funeral. It is inside a MOA. Filing IFR seems safer than going in VFR, but if I file and the MOA is hot, what is ATC going to do? ATC owns the MOA. If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working). Which MOA is it? |
#8
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"John Doe" wrote ATC owns the MOA. In what way? If need be, they can block the military aircraft in the MOA to altitude deconflict from you under you're through. No they can't. They don't work the traffic in the MOA. File IFR and follow their instructions. If that doesn't work for you, file VFR and go anyway. Military pilots are well trained that MOA are not exclusive use airspace and civilian traffic may transit the airspace at any time. Not under IFR. ATC will likely give them point outs of your location and they will avoid you even if you're VFR (as long as you're transponder is working). They're not on ATC frequency. Which MOA is it? Falls 1. Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is that never true? Thanks. Dave |
#9
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"Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5... Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is that never true? Thanks. My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs. |
#10
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ok, I'll bite.
Does civilian ATC sometimes work a hot MOA? How/why/when ? On 7/6/2005 7:56 AM, Steven P. McNicoll wrote the following: "Dave Butler" wrote in message news:1120654012.820341@sj-nntpcache-5... Hi Steven, are your answers specific to the Falls 1 MOA, or true for MOAs in general? I thought ATC sometimes worked the military traffic inside the MOA. Is that never true? Thanks. My answers apply to Falls 1 and the nearby Volk MOAs. |
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