inverted spin recovery explanation

.... and don't forget to close the throttle :-)


"john smith" wrote in message
...
TD wrote:
Can someone help me and list the steps to recover from an incipient inverted
spin and fully developed inverted spin?

It doesn't matter whether you are inverted or upright.
If you are in a spin, step on the "HARD" rudder pedal, neutralize the stick.
When the rotation stops, the nose will be pointed down. Pull to the
nearest horizon. Speed will rapidly increase with the nose low, so don't
hesitate.

(Rick Macklem) wrote:

don't think for a nanosecond that anything you read will teach you
how to recover from inverted spins.

Well, yes, but it's really the visuals that tend to blow
beginner pilots away. The aircraft doesn't become emotionally
concerned because it's upside down - only the pilot does

In fact, I'd rather do an inverted spin any day, vs an upright
spin. Why? Because the rudder is in "clean air" in an inverted
spin.

The Pitts (in which I've recovered from hundreds of inverted spins)
can take up to TWO complete rotations to recover from an upright
spin. During that time, pilots can lose faith and get off the
correct rudder. However the Pitts will recover from an inverted
flat spin in ONE rotation, because the rudder is not being blanketed
by the rudder, as it is during an upright spin.

Three things you need to know about spins:

1) power is bad. Get off the power
2) stick is bad. Adverse yaw, rudder blanketing. Neutralize the
stick.
3) yaw is the problem. Fix it with rudder. I don't use the "heavy
pedal" trick, I just look across the nose. Works for me.

Give the above time to work. In a spin, you're going to be pumped,
and you're going to want to recover in a nanosecond. It doesn't work
that way. You have to give the correct inputs time to work.

As you can tell, I'm a Beggs-Mueller advocate. I'm sure you
can find aircraft types that it doesn't work in, but it sure
works well in the Pitts, which truth be known, has incredibly
docile stall/spin characteristics. Sure you can wind it up, but
it recovers just as easily as it gets into the spin. Many people
have managed to kill themselves in spins - I suspect they "froze",
which I have seen in students. This "deer-in-the-headlights" reaction
is not the optimal response to this situation.

One last comment: sometimes you will hear people talk about
the "rogue spin" they got into. Often these are beginner aerobatic
pilots, whom are perfecting the "hammerspin" which is best performed
with a metal prop.

Think about the control inputs for a hammerhead pivot: full left
rudder, full front right stick: those are perfect inputs for a
beautiful outside snap (generally only performed by Unlimited
category dot-pilots, and airshow pilots) which if performed on
the vertical downline, allows altitude to be exchanged for airspeed
which will keep that wonderful outside snap going - snaps stop when
you run out of airspeed (eg upline, buried stick).

As you might guess, I'm rather partial to outside snaps, because the
Pitts does them so well. Just like an inverted spin, the rudder is
in clean air. Outside snaps are great fun, just keep in mind your
-ve Va. One fun maneuver is a level 1/2 roll to inverted, then a push
up (half outside loop) then an outside 1/2 snap back to inverted at
the
top of the loop, then a nice pull for an inside loop downwards. Very
easy to do. It's a bit of a G-loc trap - don't do this for the first
time from the surface, because you may grey out a bit if you don't
grunt enthusiastically during the pull - but great fun nonetheless.

--
ATP www.pittspecials.com

Every aircraft is slightly different, and the Pitts is most surely different
from the Decathlon. Looking in the NTSB database from 1983 to 2001, I see19
fatal spin accidents in the Pitts and only 4 in the Decathlon. Source data:
http://www.iac-chapter11.net/Fatal_A..._Accidents.htm

The Decathlon POH states that both rudder and stick input are required for
spin recovery. Can't remember the exact wording, but the basic gist was to
apply opposite rudder and anti-stall elevator at the same time.

Dave Swartz wrote an article on "unrecoverable spins", based on some spin
modes he encountered in a Decathlon. He described several instances where
he encountered rudder blanketing and was unable to slow the rotation. Both
pedals were "soft". Moving the stick back to neutral increased his rudder
effectiveness and allowed him to recover. As I recall, the spins he
described were inverted, flat, and accelerated. The link to the article,
and to Dave's website, doesn't work anymore; not sure why.

In my own limited experience, I found my Decathlon to be a bit reluctant to
spin inverted, and to quickly recover as soon as pro-spin inputs are
relaxed. For upright spins, I use the standard opposite rudder to stop
rotation, then stick to break stall, and it has worked every time so far.

Obviously the original poster shouldn't be seeking inverted spin instruction
over the internet. However, if he is just nervous about learning positive-G
acro without having had inverted spin instruction, that's not really too big
a worry. For any kind of blown maneuver in the Decathlon, just neutralize
all controls and let the nose fall through. Neutral controls will stop most
every incipient stall/spin in the D.



"Rick Macklem" wrote in message
om...
(Guenther Eichhorn) wrote in message
...
One important comment: DO NOT pull the stick back before the rotation
has stopped.
This is very dangerous since first you will accelerate the spin, and
then it may
get you in a cross-over spin, meaning you transition from an inverted
spin to an
upright spin, with the airplane rolling in the same direction, but
yawing in the
opposite direction. To recover from that, you now need to use the
opposite
rudder. If you don't notice that you have crossed over, you will more
than likely
not get out of the spin. A good friend of mine friend of mine died in
exactly
that situation.

My only concern with the about statement is that I'm not sure all
airplanes
will stop spinning without pulling the stick aft. (I recall in an inverted
spin in a Decathlon, I had to give it a little extra pull through neutral
to
get it to pop out. I've been told that Beggs-Mueller doesn't always work
for
the inverted spin in a Decathlon, which suggests some aft stick is
required
to stop rotation.)

I believe Sammy Mason's version is:
- Full rudder opposite to the yaw (he says opposite to the spin, which
I've
always found confusing for inverted spins)
pause
- then pull the stick smoothly back through neutral

In the three types I've done them in (Pitts, Decathlon, Extra), I never
needed
full aft stick. Of the 3, the Decathlon seemed to need the most aft stick
to get
it to pop out. (It's been a long time since I flew a Pitts, but I recall
it
recovering almost instantly and the Extra seems to come out easily,
although I
haven't sat there will full opposite rudder and full forward stick to see
if it
stops before any aft stick movement.)

ALWAYS first stop the yaw, then use the elevator however necessary.

Yes, I think that is a better way to put it. (And I think you'd agree that
it's
not the same as waiting for the spin to stop before moving the elevator.)

rick