Commercial Rating Question

Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2 hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?

-- Dane

Dane Spearing wrote:
Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2 hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?

-- Dane

That's my understanding. I'm pursuing my commercial also and have been
told this by several CFIs.


Matt

On 6/29/2006 3:31 PM, Dane Spearing wrote the following:
Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2 hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?

-- Dane

Yes. The examiner and I had to do some hunting in my logbook to find
a flight that qualified for (iii) as I had misunderstood and thought a
solo was o.k. Fortunately we found one.

"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...
Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2
hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?

Yes. See 61.1b6 for the definition of "flight training". (The three main
sources of official aviation definitions are FAR 1.1, FAR 61.1, and the AIM
Pilot/Controller Glossary. Not all regulatory terms appear in any of those
places; but most do, so they're good places to look first.)

By the way, commercial privileges are granted by a new certificate, not a
rating. The DE might care about that distinction.

(I cross-posted this to rec.aviation.piloting, since it's not about IFR.)

--Gary

Dane Spearing wrote:
e of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?


Yep and solo MEANS solo. That's another one that trips up commercial
applicants.

"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...

Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2
hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine
airplane
in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of
more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine
airplane
in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of
more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?


Yes, an absolutely ridiculous requirement.

Dane Spearing wrote:
Do the two VRF cross country trips required for the commercial rating (2 hrs,
100 nm min, one day, one night) have to be dual? FAR 61.129(a)(3) seems to
imply that it should be dual in the statement:

"20 hours of training on the areas of operation listed in 61.127(b)(1) of
this part that includes at least --

(iii) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in day VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

(iv) One cross-country flight of at least 2 hours in a single-engine airplane
in night VFR conditions, consisting of a total straight-line distance of more
than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure; ... "

I assume that "training" implies dual. Is this a correct assumption?

-- Dane


Your interpretation is correct. The same section also requires "solo"
xc flights. Technically this has to be without passengers. My feeling
is that this FAR was written for those who take commercial checkrides
directly from a student pilot certificate. In those cases the FAR start
to make sense. But for someone already with a PP and IR, it makes no
sense at all.

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
My feeling is that this FAR was written for those who
take commercial checkrides directly from a student pilot certificate.

I'm afraid such a checkride wouldn't get very far: 61.123h says a
commercial-pilot applicant must "hold at least a private pilot certificate"
(or be a military pilot).

--Gary

I'm afraid such a checkride wouldn't get very far: 61.123h says a
commercial-pilot applicant must "hold at least a private pilot certificate"
(or be a military pilot).

Does it say for how long he has to hold it?

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jose" wrote in message
. com...
I'm afraid such a checkride wouldn't get very far: 61.123h says a
commercial-pilot applicant must "hold at least a private pilot
certificate" (or be a military pilot).

Does it say for how long he has to hold it?

Well, at least long enough to accumulate 250 hours of flight time, 50 hours
of cross-country PIC time, a 300-mile solo cross-country flight, etc.

--Gary