Flight Oximeter and 02 Saturation Standards

I just bought a FlightStat Fingertip Pulse Oximeter as an added measure
of safety when flying at oxygen altitudes (with oxygen, obviously).
Anyway, the device does not really come with any guidelines on threshold
levels below which you should be concerned.

1. A little background reading suggests that 93% is good; 89% seems to
be OK, but the lowest one would want to go to avoid any imapirment.
Does anyone know definitive values?

2. Does anyone have experience with Oximeters like this? What values do
you see at the higher altiutudes (non-cabin pressure aircraft...just
supplemental oxygen).

3. I read that, at least at one time, one could find places (often
military bases) where pilots could go and experience O2 deprivation in a
controled environment to learn about its effects and how better to
notice them. Does anyone know where on goes to try this out and how one
finds the nearest place to do this. Seems like a good safety exercise.

AIM 8-1-2 discusses altitude chambers. I'm sure that you could Google for
oxygen partial pressure and get some hits.

Bob Gardner

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
I just bought a FlightStat Fingertip Pulse Oximeter as an added measure
of safety when flying at oxygen altitudes (with oxygen, obviously).
Anyway, the device does not really come with any guidelines on threshold
levels below which you should be concerned.

1. A little background reading suggests that 93% is good; 89% seems to
be OK, but the lowest one would want to go to avoid any imapirment.
Does anyone know definitive values?

2. Does anyone have experience with Oximeters like this? What values do
you see at the higher altiutudes (non-cabin pressure aircraft...just
supplemental oxygen).

3. I read that, at least at one time, one could find places (often
military bases) where pilots could go and experience O2 deprivation in a
controled environment to learn about its effects and how better to
notice them. Does anyone know where on goes to try this out and how one
finds the nearest place to do this. Seems like a good safety exercise.

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
I just bought a FlightStat Fingertip Pulse Oximeter as an added measure
of safety when flying at oxygen altitudes (with oxygen, obviously).
Anyway, the device does not really come with any guidelines on threshold
levels below which you should be concerned.

1. A little background reading suggests that 93% is good; 89% seems to
be OK, but the lowest one would want to go to avoid any imapirment.
Does anyone know definitive values?

http://www.avshop.com/productimages/...ts/Hypoxia.pdf

suggests that there is a precipitous fall in oxygen concentration into the
low 80s or below at some level (partial pressure) when the body fails to
compensate for the deficit.

2. Does anyone have experience with Oximeters like this? What values do
you see at the higher altiutudes (non-cabin pressure aircraft...just
supplemental oxygen).

From memory, I typically see 97% at SL, 88-89% at 10,000 ft without oxygen,
returning to near SL values with an oxygen canula.

Julian Scarfe

"O. Sami Saydjari" writes:

2. Does anyone have experience with Oximeters like this?

I wouldn't want to fly (typically) without one anymore.

What values do
you see at the higher altiutudes (non-cabin pressure aircraft...just
supplemental oxygen).

It varies considerably by person. My wife can stay at a higher
saturation level (than me) using with much less flow. She gets
impaired at higher levels though. Go figure.

I think you're right to test yourself.

--kyler

Every pilot should definitely read these two articles:

Review of Nonin Onyx Pulse Oximeter
(has good info that would probably apply to all brands of oximeters)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/pulseox/

Respiration: What Pilots Need to Know (But Aren't Taught)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/a.../respirat.html

Ross, Excellent articles. Thanks so much for pointing them out. I
particularly enjoyed the part about focused breathing yeilding a
significantly improved oxygen saturation.

I know it has been pointed out in several different places, but it seems
pretty clear that the FAA needs to reconsider its supplemental oxygen
requirements. Waiting until 12,500 seems like a bad idea.

-Sami

Ross Oliver wrote:
Every pilot should definitely read these two articles:

Review of Nonin Onyx Pulse Oximeter
(has good info that would probably apply to all brands of oximeters)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/pulseox/

Respiration: What Pilots Need to Know (But Aren't Taught)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/a.../respirat.html

"O. Sami Saydjari" writes:

I know it has been pointed out in several different places, but it seems
pretty clear that the FAA needs to reconsider its supplemental oxygen
requirements. Waiting until 12,500 seems like a bad idea.

The current FAA requirements do not include waiting until 12,500'
before using supplemental oxygen. I use supplemental O2 when I'm
lower and I'm not breaking any regs.

OTOH, I pushed to the legal limits of altitude on most every
flight when I first go my certificate (because our oxygen system
wasn't working). I didn't experience problems from that and did
get to avoid a lot of crappy weather.

Why is it you want tigher regulation for us?

--kyler

In an otherwise healthy human being, the oxygen content (as measured as
a partial pressure of gas) of blood starts dropping off pretty abruptly
below 90-92% (Im omitting co-factors such as temperature, blood counts,
blood pH and such for non-medical people). In the in-hospital
population, we treat saturations below 92% in major medical
center/teaching hospital intensive care units that I work in, and below
90% in persons with SEVERE lung disease (again, Im keeping it simple for
the non-medical people).

I would avoid sats in the 80's as a general rule, if you are going to
titrate your oxygen flow based on a portable pulse ox. You will have
less fatigue, less headache, and less cardiovascular stress. You will
FEEL better.

If your sat is below 92% on the ground, without oxygen, I would
recommend talking to a doctor to find out why.

When I did flight nursing, we dealt with cabin altitudes of 5-7k feet
and it wasnt uncommon for patients to drop from 95% down to the high
80's.. as a result we routinely placed ALL of our patients on low flow
supplemental oxygen.. usually 2 liters per minute as a minimum, and gave
more as needed to keep the saturation up. Keep in mind, these are sick
people with little cardiovascular reserve, so we were minimizing patient
stressors that the healthy flight crew could readily tolerate. I have no
idea what the equivalent settings are on aviation oxygen systems - the
ones I have seen are labelled with altitudes rather than their
corresponding flow rates. But if you are using a pulse ox, adjust it
until you get the desired result.

As for "chamber rides" I dont have any resources on how to set that up.
I know that some NASA facilities can accomplish this, but I dont have
any contact info with regards to that.

Dave, PPASEL, RN/Paramedic

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

I just bought a FlightStat Fingertip Pulse Oximeter as an added measure
of safety when flying at oxygen altitudes (with oxygen, obviously).
Anyway, the device does not really come with any guidelines on threshold
levels below which you should be concerned.

1. A little background reading suggests that 93% is good; 89% seems to
be OK, but the lowest one would want to go to avoid any imapirment.
Does anyone know definitive values?

2. Does anyone have experience with Oximeters like this? What values do
you see at the higher altiutudes (non-cabin pressure aircraft...just
supplemental oxygen).

3. I read that, at least at one time, one could find places (often
military bases) where pilots could go and experience O2 deprivation in a
controled environment to learn about its effects and how better to
notice them. Does anyone know where on goes to try this out and how one
finds the nearest place to do this. Seems like a good safety exercise.

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
I know it has been pointed out in several different places, but it seems
pretty clear that the FAA needs to reconsider its supplemental oxygen
requirements. Waiting until 12,500 seems like a bad idea.


I disagree that the mandatory maximum altitude needs to be reconsidered.
I do think more education is needed about when it might be advisible to use
supplimental oxygen below the mandatory maximum. For example, when I did
a mountain checkout at my local flying club, there was no mention of using
supplimental oxygen below the mandatory maximum. There was also no
demonstration of the portable oxygen system that the club had available
for rent. When I rented it for an actual mountainous cross-country, I
hired a CFI for a one-on-one session to learn how to use it properly.

There's always more to learn,

Ross

Depends on who you are, what you do and where you live. If you are an
athlete living in Frisco, CO (10,000"), 12,500 is trivial. Then there are
the people who get High Altitude Pulminary Edema on a bus from San Francisco
to Reno. You can choose to use O2 at sea level if you choose but lets not
make it apply to everybody.

We had an oximeter the last time I went climbing and the results were
interesting. Upon reaching each new altitude, O2 levels were in the mid 80s
but a day or two later they were in the low to mid 90s. This pattern
continued to over 17,000' where we stopped taking measurments. Looking
back, you could have predicted who would drop out several days before they
actually did. Those who had readings in the 70s upon arrival and low 80s a
day later dropped out 3,000' higher where their readings were in the 60s.

Mike
MU-2

"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
Ross, Excellent articles. Thanks so much for pointing them out. I
particularly enjoyed the part about focused breathing yeilding a
significantly improved oxygen saturation.

I know it has been pointed out in several different places, but it seems
pretty clear that the FAA needs to reconsider its supplemental oxygen
requirements. Waiting until 12,500 seems like a bad idea.

-Sami

Ross Oliver wrote:
Every pilot should definitely read these two articles:

Review of Nonin Onyx Pulse Oximeter
(has good info that would probably apply to all brands of oximeters)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/art/pulseox/

Respiration: What Pilots Need to Know (But Aren't Taught)
http://www.aeromedix.com/aeromedix/a.../respirat.html