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#1
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Auto conversion cost post
Sometime recently (last 6 months or so) there was a post about how
much a well done auto conversion costs. The point was that if you're doing it right - rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. (I think it's accepted by both sides that a rebuild will be significantly less for the auto conversion, but that wasn't the point) IIRC, it broke down the costs to pretty small details. I've googled but can't find it. Does anyone remember it, or is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? |
#2
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Richard Riley wrote in message . ..
Sometime recently (last 6 months or so) there was a post about how much a well done auto conversion costs. The point was that if you're doing it right - rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. (I think it's accepted by both sides that a rebuild will be significantly less for the auto conversion, but that wasn't the point) IIRC, it broke down the costs to pretty small details. I've googled but can't find it. Does anyone remember it, or is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? Mine is running in the 14,000 dollar range. All new parts and the best available technology one can buy. Less then half the cost of a Lyc 0-360, twice the output, no chance of shock cooling the cylinders, safe and easy way of heating the cockpit. Rebuilds will be in the 1,100.00 dollar range. Thank god for being an American and having the right to build an experimental plane with ANY kind of powerplant one wants to use. Pics of the plane and motor will be in Jays site soon. Happy holidays to all you plane lovers out there. Ben Haas. N801BH. Jackson Hole WY. |
#3
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2003, Richard Riley wrote:
- rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. snip is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? Richard, It certainly must be a figment of somebodys imagination, and that person is convincing himself. Horsefeathers! George Graham RX-7 Powered Graham-EZ, N4449E Homepage http://bfn.org/~ca266 |
#4
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Richard Riley wrote: Sometime recently (last 6 months or so) there was a post about how much a well done auto conversion costs. The point was that if you're doing it right - rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. (I think it's accepted by both sides that a rebuild will be significantly less for the auto conversion, but that wasn't the point) IIRC, it broke down the costs to pretty small details. I've googled but can't find it. Does anyone remember it, or is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? Richard, We most often agree and I really don't have a horse in this race either way but I see one flaw in your statement. Comparing an auto engine built up with "race quality parts" to an aircraft engine that is "zero timed" is not fair. There is nothing in a zero timed engine built buy lycoming or continental that remotely resembles the latest technology or "race quality parts" that you can buy for an auto engine. Aircraft engines are 1930's technology. Not saying that there's anything wrong with that, I fly behind a Jacobs radial everyday. It just isn't apples to apples in my opinion. Rick Pellicciotti http://www.belleairetours.com |
#5
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On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:07:35 GMT, Richard Riley
wrote: Sometime recently (last 6 months or so) there was a post about how much a well done auto conversion costs. The point was that if you're doing it right - rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. (I think it's accepted by both sides that a rebuild will be significantly less for the auto conversion, but that wasn't the point) IIRC, it broke down the costs to pretty small details. I've googled but can't find it. Does anyone remember it, or is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? Richard, I think this depends on who does the build: someone who sells firewall forward units, or a homebuilder who does all the work himself. For a firewall forward unit, I've seen pricing up to $18,000 for something making around 200 hp. For something like the Enginair 420 hp V8, that costs around $80,000 last time I looked. For guys who want to do the work themselves, the cost can be considerably lower. In my case, I expect my final cost will be somewhere between $5,000 and $6,000 for a complete 190 hp running engine installed in the airframe. The engine should be considered zero timed. Corky Scott |
#6
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Richard Riley wrote:
Sometime recently (last 6 months or so) there was a post about how much a well done auto conversion costs. The point was that if you're doing it right - rebuild with race quality parts, proven PSRU, etc - that the initial installation isn't significantly less than a zero timed LyCont. (I think it's accepted by both sides that a rebuild will be significantly less for the auto conversion, but that wasn't the point) IIRC, it broke down the costs to pretty small details. I've googled but can't find it. Does anyone remember it, or is this a figment of my sleep deprived imagination? I don't have a current interest in this issue ... yet! However, when I do get started building, this will be a major issue, and I have been reading, talking to chapter members and others, and even contributing my 0.02 on occasion for some time. Originally, I believed that the best way to convert an automotive engine was to flip it over and drive directly through a quill shaft, in the manner of Steve Wittman's conversion of a Buick/Olds aluminum V8 for the Tailwind. The lighter castings in more recent 90 degree V8 and V6 iron block engines made the idea seem reasonable for a long time. However, those relatively large, slow turning engines that develop their peak torque at less than 3500 rpm are rapidly becoming dinosaurs, and any dream of a retractable nose wheel starts to look really nasty! I still like auto engines, but doubt that the more modern ones will benefit from the "conversion" process. Everyone who has posted here, and who claims to have manufacturing experience, claims that they are routinely run at maximum rpm and horsepower for extended periods during acceptance testing of the designs, including some really atrocious warm-up procedures, and the major concern (and proven failure mode) is the head gaskets. Therefore, the addition of racing parts does not seem productive from my viewpoint, with the possible exception of the head gaskets. Assuming that unleaded fuel will be available, at least most of the time, every ECM being supplied is so much better than my own engine management can ever be that there is no contest. Therefore, my most recent thinking is leave the engine completely stock, including all harmonic balancing and damping components; and supply it with an offset reduction drive. Just my 2 cents. Peter Additional disclaimer: Just my current thinking, and a reserve the right to use one of those heavy old inverted engines--resulting in a two seater with the weight of a four seater ... or to consider a certificated aircraft engine. |
#7
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"Peter Dohm" wrote and the major concern (and proven failure mode) is the head gaskets. Peter Proper warm up before applying high loads, make this head gasket issue a moot point. The engine must be heat soaked, prior to runup, and takeoff. -- Jim in NC |
#8
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On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Peter Dohm wrote:
Therefore, my most recent thinking is leave the engine completely stock, including all harmonic balancing and damping components; and supply it with an offset reduction drive. Just my 2 cents. I agree Peter, I also used the stock 5spd transmission as a psru, but did use a lighter flywheel. Over five years flying, almost 400 hours, I love it! George Graham RX-7 Powered Graham-EZ, N4449E Homepage http://bfn.org/~ca266 |
#9
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So George, fill us all in on how you took a 5 speed trans and used it
to transmit 500-600 pounds of thrust from the prop when in a car there is no thrust loads on the output shaft at all?? George A. Graham" wrote in message ... On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, Peter Dohm wrote: Therefore, my most recent thinking is leave the engine completely stock, including all harmonic balancing and damping components; and supply it with an offset reduction drive. Just my 2 cents. I agree Peter, I also used the stock 5spd transmission as a psru, but did use a lighter flywheel. Over five years flying, almost 400 hours, I love it! George Graham RX-7 Powered Graham-EZ, N4449E Homepage http://bfn.org/~ca266 |
#10
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On 25 Dec 2003, Ben Haas wrote:
So George, fill us all in on how you took a 5 speed trans and used it to transmit 500-600 pounds of thrust from the prop when in a car there is no thrust loads on the output shaft at all?? Sure Ben, Single deep groove bearings, and it is more like 300 lbs. The stock output shaft is not used (too long). George Graham RX-7 Powered Graham-EZ, N4449E Homepage http://bfn.org/~ca266 |
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