Gear Warning

Canada, not BGA....

If you are almost ready to land, nicely set up with the proper descent
rate, and hear a gear up warning, what do you do? You proceed to lower
the gear, your left hand is currently on the open spoilers, your right
on the stick... usually..... so (also usually) your gear lever is on
the right side, you need your right hand, so you switch hands, left
hand on stick, right hand on gear, then just slightly before your gear
comes down, you flop onto the ground hard enough to break your tail
since your spoilers are now full out late on final .... left hand moved
over to the stick, remember? By doing nothing you flare and land on the
belly.... likely less expensive to repair. Just a theory. Until you do
it yourself. Ouch.

wrote:
Canada, not BGA....

If you are almost ready to land, nicely set up with the proper descent
rate, and hear a gear up warning, what do you do?

How did you get that nicely setup proper descent rate without using the
spoilers well before you are almost ready to land?

You proceed to lower
the gear, your left hand is currently on the open spoilers, your right
on the stick... usually..... so (also usually) your gear lever is on
the right side, you need your right hand, so you switch hands, left
hand on stick, right hand on gear, then just slightly before your gear
comes down, you flop onto the ground hard enough to break your tail
since your spoilers are now full out late on final .... left hand moved
over to the stick, remember? By doing nothing you flare and land on the
belly.... likely less expensive to repair. Just a theory. Until you do
it yourself. Ouch.

I think the gear warning would not be problem with a halfway decent
approach, but could be a problem in a badly done, low approach, so that
the spoilers are not used till close to the ground. Also, what you say
might apply to a warning given over the radio, which could easily come
late when you are almost ready to land.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

wrote in message
oups.com...
Canada, not BGA....

If you are almost ready to land, nicely set up with the proper descent
rate, and hear a gear up warning, what do you do? You proceed to lower
the gear, your left hand is currently on the open spoilers, your right
on the stick... usually..... so (also usually) your gear lever is on
the right side, you need your right hand, so you switch hands, left
hand on stick, right hand on gear, then just slightly before your gear
comes down, you flop onto the ground hard enough to break your tail
since your spoilers are now full out late on final .... left hand moved
over to the stick, remember? By doing nothing you flare and land on the
belly.... likely less expensive to repair. Just a theory. Until you do
it yourself. Ouch.


I don't quite buy all of this.

Airplane pilots land with their left hand on the yoke and right hand on the
throttle. When they shift to gliders, they land with their right hand on
the stick and left on the spoiler. In other words, a well trailed pilot can
land with either hand on the flight controls.

If you can't fly with either hand, you are limited. If you can, then
shifting hands to extend the gear shouldn't be a problem.

A possible thought here is that a throttle will stay where it is when you
let go - that's what friction locks are for. A spoiler will either suck
open or slam shut forcing the pilot to keep a hand on the control. Seems
like we should ask the designers to take a look at this.

Bill Daniels

You close the brakes before switching hands. No glider has a really
stable spoiler when cracked open and you can use the extra height to
extend your pattern while you put the gear down. A 40:1 ship can fly
over six miles from an 800-foot pattern altitude and has something like
5 minutes flying time available. From 500 feet make that 3+ minutes,
plenty of time to lower the gear.

If you first crack the brakes just before touching down (say at 50
feet) then you are screwed and deserve to break your glider. As I said
earlier, you'll need a few seconds to lower the gear so you'd better
have enough height.

I was trained to do all my pre-landing checks at pattern altitude,
cracking the brakes and visually checking both are open and to leave my
left hand on the spoiler until touchdown, which is the procedure I
still follow.

Mike

At 21:54 16 November 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:

If it was...your wife's voice on the recording do you

think you would still filter it out?

Wow, nobody bit on this one?

9B

At 01:42 17 November 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio
call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking
job. What
would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the
brake handle came
off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff?

In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all
it takes is- brakes
closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at
3 to 4 seconds in
an ASW 20.

With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close
brakes, switch
hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in
4 to 6 seconds. On
downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even
on final if it
isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents
no moe than about
600 feet - say 200 meters.

BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen!

Mike



It's only a recommendation.

Ever seen a pilot with a fixation flying off the end of the runway with
his gear going up and down instead of his spoilers? Surprising how even
competent people can get caught out and flustered by the unexpected. This
is a cost versus safety argument and you takes your pick but BGA
recommendations are not cost-orientated.

Mike the Strike wrote:

Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably
shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What
would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came
off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff?

In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes
closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in
an ASW 20.

With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch
hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On
downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it
isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about
600 feet - say 200 meters.

BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen!

Mike

At 09:42 17 November 2005, im
Green wrote:
Ever seen a pilot with a fixation flying off the end
of the runway with
his gear going up and down instead of his spoilers?
Surprising how even
competent people can get caught out and flustered by
the unexpected. This
is a cost versus safety argument and you takes your
pick but BGA
recommendations are not cost-orientated.


No one, as far as I know, has ever been hurt while
landing wheel-up - but there have been a number of
injuries to those losing control while trying to lower
the u/c at the last minute.

I mentioned the fitting of a 'wheel-up/airbrakes out'
warning mechanism when I had my Jantar-3 refitted in
Poland.
They would not hear of it !

Oh - and it is quite possible to land wheel-up after
completing landing checks.
Believe me !

sta13.

At 09:42 17 November 2005, im
Green wrote:
Ever seen a pilot with a fixation flying off the end
of the runway with
his gear going up and down instead of his spoilers?
Surprising how even
competent people can get caught out and flustered by
the unexpected. This
is a cost versus safety argument and you takes your
pick but BGA
recommendations are not cost-orientated.


No one, as far as I know, has ever been hurt while
landing wheel-up - but there have been a number of
injuries to those losing control while trying to lower
the u/c at the last minute.

I mentioned the fitting of a 'wheel-up/airbrakes out'
warning mechanism when I had my Jantar-3 refitted in
Poland.
They would not hear of it !

Oh - and it is quite possible to land wheel-up after
completing landing checks.
Believe me !

sta13.

Hi Gary,

I'm with Gary. The ideas is to do your checklist (including an airbrake
check) as you enter the pattern. If your gear is down at that point you
will hear a voice telling you very clearly and repeatedly "landing gear is
up, lower landing gear" and you will fix the problem on downwind.

I think main thing this discussion has done is show that many people don't
do thorough downwind checklists.

Certainly, no gadget is going to help some pilots and it is true that last
minute distractions are to be avoided - so test your airbrakes on downwind
after "lowering" your landing gear and the problem will go away. If you
have changed your gear from down to up you will hear a warning to lower your
gear.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde

"Gary Emerson" wrote in message
om...
Mark Dickson wrote:
At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote:

So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist
where the

spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked
early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not
very logical.



Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include
checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your
gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do
the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or
airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the
buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your
checks.



For most, the gear warning buzzer will only be heard when pulling spoilers
at altitude to intentionally descend. However, it's a nice feature to
have on that day when you left the gear down the whole flight. You won't
find this mistake on short final, but most likely very early on in the
pattern where it's a quick fix and not likely to add extra risk in the
landing phase.