Filing direct with GPS

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

The installation of the GNS530 is complete. The learning is just begun.
But since I now have equipment which allows it, what is the likelihood of
receiving 'cleared as filed' if I file direct to a destination a few
hundred miles away?


The likelihood of that was not changed by the installation of the GNS530.
Whether or not a direct clearance of a few hundred miles distance is
available depends on ATC radar coverage and what lies between your
departure point and destination. If there's a busy terminal or some SUA in
the way you'll have to go around them. If radar monitoring cannot be
provided by ATC you'll be on airways.

Interesting. I THOUGHT that the possibility of 'Direct' was improved if I
had an on-board IFR-approved capability to fly direct. So that ARTC would
not have to be directly involved issuing a series of vectors (or at least
monitoring that I was slying the vector assigned)

You are saying that the likelihood of receiving Direct is solely dependent
on airspace to be crossed and radar availability?
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

The installation of the GNS530 is complete. The learning is just begun.
But since I now have equipment which allows it, what is the likelihood of
receiving 'cleared as filed' if I file direct to a destination a few
hundred miles away?


The likelihood of that was not changed by the installation of the GNS530.
Whether or not a direct clearance of a few hundred miles distance is
available depends on ATC radar coverage and what lies between your
departure point and destination. If there's a busy terminal or some SUA
in the way you'll have to go around them. If radar monitoring cannot be
provided by ATC you'll be on airways.

"pgbnh" wrote in message
...

Interesting. I THOUGHT that the possibility of 'Direct' was improved if I
had an on-board IFR-approved capability to fly direct. So that ARTC would
not have to be directly involved issuing a series of vectors (or at least
monitoring that I was slying the vector assigned)


ATC must provide radar monitoring to aircraft on vectors as well as to
aircraft on their own off-airways navigation, even aircraft that have filed
/E, /F, /G or /R.



You are saying that the likelihood of receiving Direct is solely dependent
on airspace to be crossed and radar availability?


Yup. See paragraphs 4-1-1 and 4-1-2 at the link below:

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0401.html

Limited exerience filing IFR here, but out of Denver class B, one
usually gets direct routing. Even when I've filed DPs and airways,
departure will typically change it to direct shortly after departure
(assuming you've filed /G).

-Brian

Last week, both Ft. Worth and Houston centers said "radar contact lost,
report X miles from Y" while I was cleared direct (not on airways) with /G
equipment - in Texas, going west into large headwinds at 4000.

On that trip - from central TX to KSAV and back, there were 6 legs. On the
first leg, I filed a few fixes and soon after handoff to ZHU was asked
"would you like direct HEZ". Next leg, while filing on phone, when I got to
route FSS said "direct"? And I said yes, and that was the clearance when I
picked it up. Same on next leg, and next, etc. So 5 out of 6 I filed that
way and got and on the other, they suggested right away. No transits
through Class B, though.

I'm sure YMMV in other parts of the country, but from this I learned: 1)
file that way and 2) even if radar contact lost, sometimes they won't send
you directly to an airway.

DL
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...



The likelihood of that was not changed by the installation of the GNS530.
Whether or not a direct clearance of a few hundred miles distance is
available depends on ATC radar coverage and what lies between your
departure point and destination. If there's a busy terminal or some SUA
in the way you'll have to go around them. If radar monitoring cannot be
provided by ATC you'll be on airways.

"DL" wrote in message
nk.net...

Last week, both Ft. Worth and Houston centers said "radar contact lost,
report X miles from Y" while I was cleared direct (not on airways) with /G
equipment - in Texas, going west into large headwinds at 4000.


Cleared direct to where and how far from it were you when radar contact was
lost?



I'm sure YMMV in other parts of the country, but from this I learned: 1)
file that way and 2) even if radar contact lost, sometimes they won't send
you directly to an airway.


You don't necessarily have to be on an airway, but if you aren't you have to
be proceeding direct to a navaid and be within the usable distance.

DL wrote:
Last week, both Ft. Worth and Houston centers said "radar contact lost,
report X miles from Y" while I was cleared direct (not on airways) with /G
equipment - in Texas, going west into large headwinds at 4000.

That's how Salt Lake does it also. It's common to get direct and lose
radar coverage for a portion of the flight. As long as you're above the
controllers MIA you're good to go.



I'm sure YMMV in other parts of the country, but from this I learned: 1)
file that way and 2) even if radar contact lost, sometimes they won't send
you directly to an airway.

An airway may not be anywhere near you're route of flight either, which
is the case here.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

That's how Salt Lake does it also. It's common to get direct and lose
radar coverage for a portion of the flight. As long as you're above the
controllers MIA you're good to go.


No, you're not good to go, you're just working with a poorly trained
controller.



An airway may not be anywhere near you're route of flight either, which is
the case here.


Where?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"DL" wrote in message
nk.net...

Last week, both Ft. Worth and Houston centers said "radar contact lost,
report X miles from Y" while I was cleared direct (not on airways) with
/G
equipment - in Texas, going west into large headwinds at 4000.


Cleared direct to where and how far from it were you when radar contact
was lost?

Cleared direct to an AIRPORT (with NDB as only navaid there). Radar contact
lost 196 miles out. Was requested to report 175 miles from K---. Was asked
distance out a couple of times before reaching 175 miles. Then handed to
next Center. Was asked to report 125 miles from K--- and asked a time or
two range a time or two before reaching that. Then before reaching 125
miles, Center reported "radar contact".


I'm sure YMMV in other parts of the country, but from this I learned: 1)
file that way and 2) even if radar contact lost, sometimes they won't
send
you directly to an airway.


You don't necessarily have to be on an airway, but if you aren't you have
to be proceeding direct to a navaid and be within the usable distance.

I also had a similar experience with only one of these two Centers, several
years ago and with /A equipment then. When they reported "radar contact
lost" I proactively asked if I needed to proceed to the nearest airway and
they said no - to continue. I e-mailed a controller in another Center (who
frequently posted to this newsgroup) about that experience and was told it
"was done".

Steven, you may be able to speak to the "letter and verse" of the rules, but
you may not know every practice in every center, as seems to be suggested
here.

DL wrote:



Cleared direct to an AIRPORT (with NDB as only navaid there). Radar contact
lost 196 miles out. Was requested to report 175 miles from K---. Was asked
distance out a couple of times before reaching 175 miles. Then handed to
next Center. Was asked to report 125 miles from K--- and asked a time or
two range a time or two before reaching that. Then before reaching 125
miles, Center reported "radar contact".

That's exactly how Salt Lake does it. Going north from here(BIL) ZLC
loses radar below about 9500. Since you're not in the mountains anymore
6-7000 are commonly used altitudes. After I ship you to the center
often ther first response is "radar contact lost report xxx." There's
another center radar antenna up near the Canadian border and they will
pick you back up in a 100-150 miles or so. Same thing inbound to BIL.
They will coordinate with me that a particular aircraft is nonradar. I
will see them as my radar is closer. There are no airways going north
out of BIL, only NW and NE and we don't make you go that way to get
where you're going.