dam busters

"James Hart" wrote in message
...
David McArthur wrote:
Did anyone see the TV show earlier this yr where they put a group of
RAF bods in a Lanc simulator and asked them to re-create the raid,
including navaigation to the target and the bomb run - really
interesting show, well put together.

David.

There's also another one where they put some recruits through the Spitfire
training program.

A good mate of mine was on that show, Ben WB (the ugly UAS guy). The joke at
the time was since he is such a bad pilot, he'd been streamed vintage.

Jim D

--
James...
www.jameshart.co.uk

Ken Duffey wrote:
PPowondra wrote:

Subject: dam busters
From: "Tacitus"
Date: 2/23/2004 20:42 Eastern Standard Time

Didn't they do another version with the dog named Digger for the US?

Actually they called the dog Sambo
here in the US. It was only a couple
of years ago that I learned that my
copy of "The Dam Busters" was
different from the UK version of
the book, wherein the dog's true
name is given. As far as the movie,
on the rare showings on TV, they
even dub out the name Sambo.

Paul

I also thought they'd called it 'digger' when shown on TV ??

At least here in the UK they did - or is my memory playing tricks -
again!

No it's not! They did re-jig the name in a previous showing but I think in
the more recent showing they went back to the original name.

Richard.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++

Subject: dam busters
From: "Richard Brooks"



No it's not! They did re-jig the name in a previous showing but I think in
the more recent showing they went back to the original name.

Richard.

"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

Paul

"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

"Digger" was an uncomplementary name for either dark-skinned or mixed race
folks in Australia, or at least it was in the past. Perhaps it was the local
equiv of "Sambo", who, when I was a kid, was a savvy and rather brave youg kid
that defeated a hungry pride of lions using only his wits. How that ever got
turned into a racial slur, I will never know!

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Donate your memories - write a note on the back and send your old photos to a
reputable museum, don't take them with you when you're gone.

"Krztalizer" wrote in message
...
re PC versions of Gibson's dog ******
"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

"Digger" was an uncomplementary name for either dark-skinned or mixed race
folks in Australia, or at least it was in the past.

First time I've seen that version! More typical is this example:

From 'Anzacs at War: The Story of Australian and New Zealand Battles' John
Laffin (C)1965

"The term 'Digger' is not so easy to pin down. It became common among
Australian and New Zealand soldiers in France in 1917, but was probably in
use during 1916. Bean [Australian official historian] said that the word
evolved from the professional gum-diggers[1] of New Zealand. Many old
soldiers believe that the word came about as a natural result of their
trench-digging activities in France and Flanders [2]. Others claim that some
West Australian soldiers, gold-miners in civilian life, started the word on
its way. At one time it was slang expression for a plodder, which could make
it an apt term for an infantryman. Whatever its beginning, the word has a
much stronger connection with Australian soldiers than with New Zealanders,
who were more commonly known to allies and even to enemies as 'Kiwis'.[3]"

[1] the gum involved here is from the kauri tree. The gum was generally
recovered from swampy ground, hence the need to dig. Googling on 'kauri gum'
will find you lots of people eager to sell you examples, as well as a better
explanation.

[2] I've seen a claim that it was particularly linked with the WWI Maori
Pioneer Battalion.

[3] 'Enzeds' was also in use in WWI.


--
Errol Cavit | | "The Battle of Romani was the
decisive engagement of the entire Sinai and Palestine Campaign. Before
Romani British policy, strategy and tactics were all defensive, those of the
Turks were offensive. The stand of the 1st and 2nd Light Horse brigades and
the counter-attack of the New Zealanders reversed the situation." Anzacs at
War, J Laffin

PPowondra wrote:
Subject: dam busters
From: "Richard Brooks"



No it's not! They did re-jig the name in a previous showing but I
think in the more recent showing they went back to the original name.

Richard.

"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

Paul

They cut out the WAAF with the cold who spilt the coffee then said "oh
boddocks!"

Richard.

Krztalizer wrote:
"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

"Digger" was an uncomplementary name for either dark-skinned or mixed
race folks in Australia, or at least it was in the past. Perhaps it
was the local equiv of "Sambo", who, when I was a kid, was a savvy
and rather brave youg kid that defeated a hungry pride of lions using
only his wits. How that ever got turned into a racial slur, I will
never know!

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Sadly, everything gets turned into something derogative as I remember it
being turned into a taunt from the white neighbour against his black
neighbour on the crap Brit comedy of some decades ago entitled "Love Thy
Neighbour"! The point of this comedy (like the Alf Garnett character in
"'til Death Us Do Part") was to take the **** out of the bigotted white male
but sometimes these things can be too subtle for most folks.

http://www.phill.co.uk/videos/garnett.html

Richard.

nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message ...

"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

"Digger" was an uncomplementary name for either dark-skinned or mixed race
folks in Australia, or at least it was in the past. Perhaps it was the local
equiv of "Sambo", who, when I was a kid, was a savvy and rather brave youg kid
that defeated a hungry pride of lions using only his wits. How that ever got
turned into a racial slur, I will never know!

On the contrary. "Digger" in Australia is very complimentary and
affectionate term though it is somewhat an anachronism that is applied
to older war vetrans.

I believe the origin can be traced the Goldfield rush of Australia
where the term also became associated with the Eureka Stockage
Rebellion. (Basically men had stopped servicing the needs of the
Elites and there was a manpower shortage as men worked for Gold and
their own fortune: this was seen as a problem by the Government and
tensions built up between the Golddiggers and the Government which
wanted more work and discouraged mining with buerocratic measures)

However the term is associated most strongly with the soldiers of the
ANZAC (Australian and New Zealand Army Core) who in 1915 were landed
due to British aristocratic military incompetence at Galliolli into
whithering fire in a ferrociously defended turkish beach whose
defensive strategy was designed by the Germans for the Turks. The
ANZACS suffered heroic losses while displaying courage and
determination. "Digger" I believe refers to the act of digging a
trench.

The day of the landings and the events sorounding it is solemly
celebrated every year in Australia as a national holiday as it marks a
turning point in History and perhaps a point at which many Australians
saw them self more Australian than British. The American equivalent
would be Iwo Jima or the Alamo.


Almost any term, outside of the frame work of political correctness,
that a person of European-Western genetic and civilisational hertiage
uses if it can be construed or contextualised as 'racist' will be
construed or contextualised as racist. It simply provides moral
leverage to extract both protections and priveledges and we live in a
well peversely discredited guilt ridden western culture accutely
sensitive to such sophistry.

In article ,
(Eunometic) wrote:

nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message
...

"Digger" sounds like how someone
would say the original name if they
had a touch of the sniffles...

"Digger" was an uncomplementary name for either dark-skinned or mixed
race
folks in Australia, or at least it was in the past. Perhaps it was the
local
equiv of "Sambo", who, when I was a kid, was a savvy and rather brave
youg kid
that defeated a hungry pride of lions using only his wits. How that
ever got
turned into a racial slur, I will never know!

On the contrary. "Digger" in Australia is very complimentary and
affectionate term though it is somewhat an anachronism that is applied
to older war vetrans.

However the term is associated most strongly with the soldiers of the
ANZAC (Australian and New Zealand Army Core) who in 1915 were landed
due to British aristocratic military incompetence at Galliolli into
whithering fire in a ferrociously defended turkish beach whose
defensive strategy was designed by the Germans for the Turks. The
ANZACS suffered heroic losses while displaying courage and
determination. "Digger" I believe refers to the act of digging a
trench.

From my non-ANZAC position, if anything, you understate their
accomplishments. Even in spite of being against some of the most
difficult opposition, their command and control was vastly superior to
that of the other landing forces. Battalion/brigade commanders appeared
to know what they were doing.

The day of the landings and the events sorounding it is solemly
celebrated every year in Australia as a national holiday as it marks a
turning point in History and perhaps a point at which many Australians
saw them self more Australian than British. The American equivalent
would be Iwo Jima or the Alamo.

I'd respectfully put it somewhere in between. The similarity to Iwo
Jima is that they made a relatively unopposed landing and ran into
vicious opposition as they tried to move inland--and did to some extent.
As opposed to Iwo and other WWII operations, the doctrine of amphibious
operations simply was too immature for there to have been real success.
With no disrespect, the ANZAC force managed a very tough withdrawal, as
opposed to the near-panic on other landing zones.

On the other hand, as opposed to the Alamo, there were survivors.