F15E/1941

Bill Shatzer wrote in
:

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Jeroen Wenting wrote:

Just anti-air. Winders and AMRAAM would do the trick nicely.
And no, that's not enough to take out half the force that took on the
Pearl but read on.

What would be the effect of the sonic boom generated by two
F-15s passing at Mach 1.4 at a distance of, say, 200 meters
on a flight of B5Ns?

Might shake them up a tiny bit but do no harm I'm thinking.
Aside from a certain of amount of "Did you see what I think
I saw" or the Japanese equivalent.

IBM

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"Pete" wrote in message
...

"Paul F Austin" wrote

Much too short sighted. You want to kill all of the Japanese CVs.
Otherwise,
a few hours later, the deck is patched and they're back in operation.

A few hours later, you have gone to Pearl, and notified HQ of the deal.

At the
worst, all six would be back in business for the battles of 1942. Since
the
Japanese CVs weren't armored to speak of, a GBU-10 with a Mk-84 warhead
should be the basic CV ship-killer. Two F-15Es should nail all six CVs
with
one bomb per and an extra pair as backup and coup d'gras. I'd nail all
CVs
and then pull back to maximum endurance loiter and observe Japanese
damage
control efforts.

Remember, 1/2 the attack force is already on the way. You need to slow
them
down as much as possible.

At Bingo, either donate the remaining ordnance to the CVs
in best shape or retire to one of the undamaged fields on Oahu and try
and
talk the duty officer out of twenty thousand pounds of kerosene to go
back
and finish the job. But that wouldn't be likely to succeed.

This is tough, because a single bomb is really marginal against a large
ship.

Which is why I thought 16 MK-82 vs 8 MK-84. Smaller warhead, yes, but more
hits.

The real question is, can 2 Strike Eagles sink all 6 carriers? Maybe,
maybe
not. There are only two of you, with limited ordnance. Slow them down as
much as possible until you can shake things up at Pearl.

Let's be clear. Pearl is out of the picture. There's nothing two USAF
"rocket planes" can do to change the outcome there. You aren't going to
divert the first strike and you aren't going to go up through the duty
officer chain and back down in time to set Condition Zebra. You can stop the
launch of the second strike, prevent recovery of any of the aircraft already
lauched and possibly destroy the Japanese carrier force on the first day of
the war. That's worth shooting for even if you exchange the antique
battleline in Pearl to do it.

500 pound bombs aren't ship killers for ships that size. 2000 pound bombs
may be. After thinking about it, a hard target penetrator fuzed to go off
after exiting below the keel may be the most lethal way of attacking large
ships. The explosive fill makes a torpedo look small and there's a fair
chance of breaking the ship's back.

"Paul F Austin" wrote in message
.. .
At Bingo, either donate the remaining ordnance to the CVs
in best shape or retire to one of the undamaged fields on Oahu and try and
talk the duty officer out of twenty thousand pounds of kerosene to go back
and finish the job. But that wouldn't be likely to succeed.

Would a 1941-era fuel truck be able to get gas into a F-15E?

"Bob Urz" wrote in message
...

Now, if you emptied the harbor of capital ships for a strike force the
Japanese spies would have relayed the information back and the jap fleet
may have turned back. Or set up for attack.

Umm, then how come the Japanese spies didn't tell the fleet that the
carriers were gone? As far as I know, right up to when the Japanese were
over Oahu they thought the carriers were there.

In message , Paul F Austin
writes
500 pound bombs aren't ship killers for ships that size. 2000 pound bombs
may be. After thinking about it, a hard target penetrator fuzed to go off
after exiting below the keel may be the most lethal way of attacking large
ships. The explosive fill makes a torpedo look small and there's a fair
chance of breaking the ship's back.

21" torpedo warheads ran around ~800lb of Torpex at the time (UK Mark
VIII - 640lb Torpex for the US Mark 14), which sounds competitive for
BLU-109/B (if a bit smaller than Mark 84)

That said, if you could get an under-keel detonation with any of those,
it will *hurt* a ship of that era.

--
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.
Julius Caesar I:2

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

I guess the simple sight of "birds" like a pair of F-15E's with U.S.
markings would:

1) Surely make the Japs realize that surprise had been lost. No "Tora
Tora Tora".

2) Probably make the Jap CO think that there were others "birds like
that" at Pearl and that he better call his planes back. Hehe. Who
would wnat to go to war, in 1941, with a country that had weapons like
the Strike Eagle? :-)

1 + 2 = No need to strike the carriers. Just the sight of those Eagles
would
be enough to make the Japs **** in their pants and sail back to Japan
as
fast as they could. :-)

"Vicente Vazquez" wrote in message
om...
I guess the simple sight of "birds" like a pair of F-15E's with U.S.
markings would:

1) Surely make the Japs realize that surprise had been lost. No "Tora
Tora Tora".

2) Probably make the Jap CO think that there were others "birds like
that" at Pearl and that he better call his planes back. Hehe. Who
would wnat to go to war, in 1941, with a country that had weapons like
the Strike Eagle? :-)

1 + 2 = No need to strike the carriers. Just the sight of those Eagles
would
be enough to make the Japs **** in their pants and sail back to Japan
as
fast as they could. :-)

Thats not the Japanese way.

Aggressive and brutal as they were they never hesitated
to attack even when the odds were stacked against them.
You can criticise their morality and judgement but they
were supremely courageous.

Keith




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"Vicente Vazquez" wrote in message
om...
I guess the simple sight of "birds" like a pair of F-15E's with U.S.
markings would:

1) Surely make the Japs realize that surprise had been lost. No "Tora
Tora Tora".

2) Probably make the Jap CO think that there were others "birds like
that" at Pearl and that he better call his planes back. Hehe. Who
would wnat to go to war, in 1941, with a country that had weapons like
the Strike Eagle? :-)

1 + 2 = No need to strike the carriers. Just the sight of those Eagles
would
be enough to make the Japs **** in their pants and sail back to Japan
as
fast as they could. :-)

Thats not the Japanese way.

Aggressive and brutal as they were they never hesitated
to attack even when the odds were stacked against them.
You can criticise their morality and judgement but they
were supremely courageous.

Keith




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

In article ,
(Vicente Vazquez) wrote:

I guess the simple sight of "birds" like a pair of F-15E's with U.S.
markings would:

There is the minor detail that US markings were different in 1941. Yes,
they might see USAF. "What's that?"

1) Surely make the Japs realize that surprise had been lost. No "Tora
Tora Tora".
2) Probably make the Jap CO think that there were others "birds like
that" at Pearl and that he better call his planes back. Hehe. Who
would wnat to go to war, in 1941, with a country that had weapons like
the Strike Eagle? :-)

Just seeing them doesn't really give any idea of their capabilities,
other than they are FAST.


1 + 2 = No need to strike the carriers. Just the sight of those Eagles
would
be enough to make the Japs **** in their pants and sail back to Japan
as
fast as they could. :-)

Bob Urz wrote in message ...
Bill Shatzer wrote:



On Mon, 31 May 2004, Paul J. Adam wrote:

-snips-


Get on the ground, and prepare to be *very* persuasive - your knowledge
of history is a vital weapon if you can persuade anyone to believe you



I would think two F-15s sitting on the tarmack at HIckham would lend
a certain credibility.

Cheers and all,

I think two F-15's at hickham in 1941 would have been the equivalent of
seeing aliens at roswell.......

Heh, I was thinking the same thing.

Hey, once you've gone winchester in the Beagles, do you thing the jets
could slice a few of the attacking Japanese planes successfully with
midair passes?