Departing IFR at SMO w/ Tower Closed

wrote in message news:nTScf.603$7A.44@fed1read04...

I accept that, for sake of discussion. But, once the aircraft enters
Class E airspace, and the TRACON sees it on radar, are you telling me that
the TRACON does not have absolute control over the aircraft at that point
in time?


Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Controllers provide ATC services in
accordance with the procedures and minima in FAA Order 7110.65. That
weighty tome tells them if a published IFR departure procedure is not
included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the
pilot's prerogative. See the note following subparagraph 4-3-2.c.3.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html#4-3-2

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

wrote in message news:nTScf.603$7A.44@fed1read04...

I accept that, for sake of discussion. But, once the aircraft enters
Class E airspace, and the TRACON sees it on radar, are you telling me that
the TRACON does not have absolute control over the aircraft at that point
in time?



Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Controllers provide ATC services in
accordance with the procedures and minima in FAA Order 7110.65. That
weighty tome tells them if a published IFR departure procedure is not
included in an ATC clearance, compliance with such a procedure is the
pilot's prerogative. See the note following subparagraph 4-3-2.c.3.

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp4/atc0403.html#4-3-2


So, let me ask it again: I elect to use the ODP at KSMO because the
tower is closed and I am in Class G airspace. I am told to contact
SoCal on 123.45. I takeoff flying the ODP and establish radio contact
with SoCal. Leaving 700 feet, agl (entering Class E) SoCal just has to
sit on their hands and let me do my thing until I complete the ODP even
though they can't maintain separation unless they start vectoring me?

wrote in message news:c_0df.648$7A.600@fed1read04...

So, let me ask it again: I elect to use the ODP at KSMO because the tower
is closed and I am in Class G airspace. I am told to contact SoCal on
123.45. I takeoff flying the ODP and establish radio contact with SoCal.
Leaving 700 feet, agl (entering Class E) SoCal just has to sit on their
hands and let me do my thing until I complete the ODP even though they
can't maintain separation unless they start vectoring me?


Ask the same question, get the same answer. The controller is expected to
know that an aircraft departing SMO is entitled to fly the ODP. If there is
a loss of separation because the controller issued clearances that allow two
aircraft to occupy the same airspace at the same time then the controller
has made a separation error.

Steven, I"ve noticed that ATC is always very interested in which runway
you will use when you call for your release. In fact, I believe my
clearances have always included the use of a certain runway (after they
first ask me which one I want). Does that assume I won't do a 180 after
take off???

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I"ve noticed that ATC is always very interested in which runway
you will use when you call for your release. In fact, I believe my
clearances have always included the use of a certain runway (after they
first ask me which one I want). Does that assume I won't do a 180 after
take off???

Depends on the airspace. If it's really busy and you pick runway 35
then your clearance will be tailored for that runway and probably
wouldn't work off rwy 17 for example. If you tell us a runway that you
will use ATC can then issue a clearance that requires the use of that
runway.