GAO: Tactical Aircraft: Changing Conditions Drive Need for New F/A-22 Business Case"

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
.. .

snip

I was forgetting that Hound Dog didn't apply to the tall tails, so they'd
pretty
much have to be on the deck, or else come in late to bounce the rubble.

IAPR indicates that the tall tails did indeed carry the Hound Dog; the first
test firing from a B-52 was reportedly from the E model,

Agrees with the info I have, but I wasn't counting a test a/c.

and the same source
indicates some of the D models were even configured as Hound Dog carriers
late in their career.

Going by Boyne, he indicates it was just the G/H, but I'm in no position to say
either way.

Another source indicates that, "By the end of 1959,

the Air Force had approved 29 B-52 squadrons to be equipped with Hound Dog
missiles." I doubt there were enough short-tail B-52's then in the works in
1959 to be designated (www.boeing.com/history/bna/hounddog.htm ). Another
source states, "...by August 1963 29 SAC wings were operational with the
AGM-28" (http://www.strategic-air-command.com...ched_Missiles/
agm-28_hound_dog_missile.htm ).

It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs. Boyne says that
peak inventory of AGM-28 was 593 weapons. At two per a/c, that would seem a bit
excessive for just the G/H fleet of 295 a/c, assuming that a certain number
wouldn't be serviceable/available at any time. Anyone got a photo of an
operational tall-tail with Hound Dog?

Guy

John Keeney wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
.. .
I was forgetting that Hound Dog didn't apply to the tall tails, so they'd
pretty
much have to be on the deck, or else come in late to bounce the rubble.

What do you mean by "didn't apply"?
Hound Dogs were carried at least as far back as the "E".
Only the "G" & "H" are short tailed.

See my rely to Kevin.

Guy

It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs.

I've got a great book by Bob Dorr that actually lays out the disposition of the
BUFF fleet by various years. In 1970 there were 10 B-52G Wings (2nd, 97th,
42nd, 416th, 380th, 19th, 68th, 72nd, 320th & 456th) and 6 B-52H wings (379th,
410th, 449th, 17th, 319th & 5th). The rest of the forces were; 9.5 B-52D Wings
and half of an F Wing (seems one squadron at Castle still had B-52Fs in 1970).

As you can see from the numbers above, at least by 1970, there wasn't even 29
BUFF wings total.

The next earlier year looked at by Dorr is 1963. There are 2 x B-52B wings, 1 x
B-52C wing, 9 x B-52D wings, 5 x B-52E wings, 4 x B-52F wings, 10 x B-52G
wings, 6 x B-52H wings and 1 wing (Castle) with a squadron each of B-52Bs and
B-52Fs.

Thats 38 total wings. Obviously this predates even my birth, but I did not
think Hound Dog was that prevalent. If 29 of 38 wings had Hound Dog I would be
very surprised because I've met only 1 ol' BUFF crew dog (nice guy I met at the
Battle Creek Air Show) who had any Hound Dog experience.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs.

I've got a great book by Bob Dorr that actually lays out the disposition
of the
BUFF fleet by various years. In 1970 there were 10 B-52G Wings (2nd, 97th,
42nd, 416th, 380th, 19th, 68th, 72nd, 320th & 456th) and 6 B-52H wings
(379th,
410th, 449th, 17th, 319th & 5th). The rest of the forces were; 9.5 B-52D
Wings
and half of an F Wing (seems one squadron at Castle still had B-52Fs in
1970).

As you can see from the numbers above, at least by 1970, there wasn't even
29
BUFF wings total.

The next earlier year looked at by Dorr is 1963. There are 2 x B-52B
wings, 1 x
B-52C wing, 9 x B-52D wings, 5 x B-52E wings, 4 x B-52F wings, 10 x B-52G
wings, 6 x B-52H wings and 1 wing (Castle) with a squadron each of B-52Bs
and
B-52Fs.

Thats 38 total wings. Obviously this predates even my birth, but I did not
think Hound Dog was that prevalent. If 29 of 38 wings had Hound Dog I
would be
very surprised because I've met only 1 ol' BUFF crew dog (nice guy I met
at the
Battle Creek Air Show) who had any Hound Dog experience.

I believe a typo may be involved here--note that the fist quote indicated 29
*squadrons* were to receive the Hound Dog, and the second quote indicates
that as of 1963 29 *wings* had them. Two possibilities--a typo replaced
"squadrons" with wings in the second quote, or (perhaps more likely), only
one squadron per wing was tasked with Hound Dog delivery.

Brooks



BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it
harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
.. .

snip

I was forgetting that Hound Dog didn't apply to the tall tails, so
they'd
pretty
much have to be on the deck, or else come in late to bounce the
rubble.

IAPR indicates that the tall tails did indeed carry the Hound Dog; the
first
test firing from a B-52 was reportedly from the E model,

Agrees with the info I have, but I wasn't counting a test a/c.

and the same source
indicates some of the D models were even configured as Hound Dog
carriers
late in their career.

Going by Boyne, he indicates it was just the G/H, but I'm in no position
to say
either way.

Another source indicates that, "By the end of 1959,

the Air Force had approved 29 B-52 squadrons to be equipped with Hound
Dog
missiles." I doubt there were enough short-tail B-52's then in the works
in
1959 to be designated (www.boeing.com/history/bna/hounddog.htm ).
Another
source states, "...by August 1963 29 SAC wings were operational with the
AGM-28"
(http://www.strategic-air-command.com...ched_Missiles/
agm-28_hound_dog_missile.htm ).

It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs. Boyne says
that
peak inventory of AGM-28 was 593 weapons. At two per a/c, that would seem
a bit
excessive for just the G/H fleet of 295 a/c, assuming that a certain
number
wouldn't be serviceable/available at any time. Anyone got a photo of an
operational tall-tail with Hound Dog?

Don't forget the possibility that only one squadron per wing was designated
as Hound Dog capable. Interestingly, while your source indicates a "peak
inventory" of 593, another source says, "Almost 700 AGM-28s were built
before production ended in 1963" (www.boeing.com/history/ bna/hounddog.htm)
.. I doubt that during such a short production run one hundred missiles were
test fired or fired during training operations.

As to photos, not sure how accurate this is, but here is a photo of a
tall-tail with Hound Dog mounted at Castle Air Museum:

www.shanaberger.com/ images/B-52.jpg

Better photos of tall-tails carrying operational Hound Dogs can be found at:

www.ammsalumni.com/ B52.html

Brooks

Guy

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
.. .

snip

I was forgetting that Hound Dog didn't apply to the tall tails, so
they'd
pretty
much have to be on the deck, or else come in late to bounce the
rubble.

IAPR indicates that the tall tails did indeed carry the Hound Dog; the
first
test firing from a B-52 was reportedly from the E model,

Agrees with the info I have, but I wasn't counting a test a/c.

and the same source
indicates some of the D models were even configured as Hound Dog
carriers
late in their career.

Going by Boyne, he indicates it was just the G/H, but I'm in no position
to say
either way.

Another source indicates that, "By the end of 1959,

the Air Force had approved 29 B-52 squadrons to be equipped with Hound
Dog
missiles." I doubt there were enough short-tail B-52's then in the
works
in
1959 to be designated (www.boeing.com/history/bna/hounddog.htm ).
Another
source states, "...by August 1963 29 SAC wings were operational with
the
AGM-28"
(http://www.strategic-air-command.com...ched_Missiles/
agm-28_hound_dog_missile.htm ).

It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs. Boyne
says
that
peak inventory of AGM-28 was 593 weapons. At two per a/c, that would
seem
a bit
excessive for just the G/H fleet of 295 a/c, assuming that a certain
number
wouldn't be serviceable/available at any time. Anyone got a photo of an
operational tall-tail with Hound Dog?

Don't forget the possibility that only one squadron per wing was
designated
as Hound Dog capable. Interestingly, while your source indicates a "peak
inventory" of 593, another source says, "Almost 700 AGM-28s were built
before production ended in 1963" (www.boeing.com/history/
bna/hounddog.htm)
. I doubt that during such a short production run one hundred missiles
were
test fired or fired during training operations.

As to photos, not sure how accurate this is, but here is a photo of a
tall-tail with Hound Dog mounted at Castle Air Museum:

www.shanaberger.com/ images/B-52.jpg

Better photos of tall-tails carrying operational Hound Dogs can be found
at:

www.ammsalumni.com/ B52.html

Add to that the following nice shot of a B-52F on the ramp at Barksdale,
complete with Hound Dog:

http://www.aviationimages.net/september_2003.htm

Brooks


Brooks

Guy

On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:46:12 GMT, Guy Alcala
wrote:

It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs. Boyne says that
peak inventory of AGM-28 was 593 weapons. At two per a/c, that would seem a bit
excessive for just the G/H fleet of 295 a/c, assuming that a certain number
wouldn't be serviceable/available at any time. Anyone got a photo of an
operational tall-tail with Hound Dog?

Fairchild had Hound Dogs when we were there TDY from Glasgow around
64/65. Everything I can find says Fairchild had Ds then. I don't
remember the model numbers though. Just a one time thing I remember
watching from a distance as they loaded what looked like a white 5
gallon can near the nose of the missile. Think it was during an ORI so
it was out on the flightline. I have no memory of going to the alert
area though and seeing a lot of planes loaded with missiles..

"Guy Alcala" wrote in message
. ..
It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs. Boyne says
that
peak inventory of AGM-28 was 593 weapons. At two per a/c, that would seem
a bit
excessive for just the G/H fleet of 295 a/c, assuming that a certain
number
wouldn't be serviceable/available at any time. Anyone got a photo of an
operational tall-tail with Hound Dog?

Can't volch for operational, but the Air Force Museum web site
-in the "archives", bombers mid to late 40s, B-52E- has some smallish ones.
I think there was one in the F section as well, but I'm not real sure...

Just checked, yep they're the
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea...s/b4/b4-68.htm
Is the page talking about the E and mentions Hound Dogs,

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea.../b4/b52e-4.jpg
Is a nice close up linked from the last page of a loaded Hound Dog,

And a picture of an F with'em here
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/resea.../b4/b52f-5.jpg

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
It does seem highly unlikely that there were 29 wings of G/Hs.

I've got a great book by Bob Dorr that actually lays out the disposition
of the
BUFF fleet by various years. In 1970 there were 10 B-52G Wings (2nd, 97th,
42nd, 416th, 380th, 19th, 68th, 72nd, 320th & 456th) and 6 B-52H wings
(379th,
410th, 449th, 17th, 319th & 5th). The rest of the forces were; 9.5 B-52D
Wings
and half of an F Wing (seems one squadron at Castle still had B-52Fs in
1970).

As you can see from the numbers above, at least by 1970, there wasn't even
29
BUFF wings total.

The next earlier year looked at by Dorr is 1963. There are 2 x B-52B
wings, 1 x
B-52C wing, 9 x B-52D wings, 5 x B-52E wings, 4 x B-52F wings, 10 x B-52G
wings, 6 x B-52H wings and 1 wing (Castle) with a squadron each of B-52Bs
and
B-52Fs.

Thats 38 total wings. Obviously this predates even my birth, but I did not
think Hound Dog was that prevalent. If 29 of 38 wings had Hound Dog I
would be
very surprised because I've met only 1 ol' BUFF crew dog (nice guy I met
at the
Battle Creek Air Show) who had any Hound Dog experience.

The BUFF BN I know locally has Hound Dog experince.
Come to think of it, he never flew a short tail eithier.

The BUFF BN I know locally has Hound Dog experince.
Come to think of it, he never flew a short tail eithier.

Do yourself a favor, to his face, never refer to him as a "BN". He was a
*Radar* Navigator and he'll let you know that

The guy I met at the Battle Creek Airshow did not retire, so he had less than
20 years, but he said he flew G models his whole career (how ever long that
was?).


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"