If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#141
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Ross wrote:
It's not a Extra 300 but I had the opportunity years ago to "fly" the American Airlines Fokker F100 at their DFW training center at full motion. I thought that was pretty realistic for this general aviation pilot. Was that full motion simulator running MSFS? That was the software in question. |
#142
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Alexey Goldin wrote: The same message twice.
You are using google groups to post aren't you? Trust you first click. |
#143
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Paul kgyy wrote:
When flying IFR with jet aircraft, the pilot has little discretion unless specifically given by ATC. Jets are given pilot discretion clearance whenever possible. It is not a rare event. A usual transmission is, United xxx, descend to 15000, and that's what you do. On rare occasion, it may be a little looser, United xxx descent at pilot's discretion, cross intersection xyz at 15000. You have that a bit wrong. If a crossing restriction is included a pilot's discretion descent is implied. AIM Reference: If the altitude information of an ATC DESCENT clearance includes a provision to “CROSS (fix) AT” or “AT OR ABOVE/BELOW (altitude),” the manner in which the descent is executed to comply with the crossing altitude is at the pilot’s discretion. This authorization to descend at pilot’s discretion is only applicable to that portion of the flight to which the crossing altitude restriction applies, and the pilot is expected to comply with the crossing altitude as a provision of the clearance. Any other clearance in which pilot execution is optional will so state “AT PILOT’S DISCRETION.” If you want a better feel for what actually goes on than you will ever get via newsgroup, take a couple of United flights and listen to the ATC channel - it can be much more entertaining than the movie at times. If someone has to ride United Airlines to learn about ATC transmissions, the pain isn't worth the gain. |
#144
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
B A R R Y wrote:
Paul kgyy wrote: If you want a better feel for what actually goes on than you will ever get via newsgroup, take a couple of United flights and listen to the ATC channel - it can be much more entertaining than the movie at times. A cheaper way is check this out: http://www.liveatc.net/ I'd add the caveat that the value of listening to tower or TRACON, although, great, does not give the flavor of listening to center sectors adjacent to busy terminal airspace. For instance, all the descent stuff that might include PD clearances will occur on Los Angeles Center frequenices, high and low sectors, not on SoCal frequencies. |
#145
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Sorry :-) Will be more careful next time.
Gig 601XL Builder wrote: Alexey Goldin wrote: The same message twice. You are using google groups to post aren't you? Trust you first click. |
#146
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Mxsmanic wrote: Newps writes: It changes flight path, like he said, you dumb****. The rudder rotates the aircraft about its yaw axis, in both simulation and real flight. Whether or not this changes the flight path depends on a number of factors. You get dumber everyday. |
#147
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Mxsmanic wrote:
For example, knowing that I'm likely to be asked to keep my speed up on that ILS, because he's vectoring a Hawker behind me for the same ILS. I've not had that experience. Like most sim pilots, I look forward to areas and periods of high traffic so that I can get more experience in dealing with congested airspaces. But simulation has the opposite problem of the real world: the real world has too much traffic, and simulation has too little. It's getting better, though (even as the real world gets worse!). You should "simulate" the look of fright from your wife sitting next to you with a look of fear when you acknowledge keeping your speed up. She's sitting over there imagining a jet that's going to ram you. |
#148
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Mxsmanic wrote: Uh, gee, Einstein, a real rudder DOES control flight path. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. There is never a case where it doesn't change flight path. |
#149
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Mxsmanic wrote: BDS writes: Staying within the context of this discussion vis-a-vis rudder input alone and your statement above, can you describe when it does and does not affect flight path and in which aircraft this is true? What are the number of different effects it can have and what situations do they occur in. There are many different possibilities. In the experiment suggested to me, I held the wings level (via the autolevel function of the autopilot), applied full right rudder, and the aircraft yawed and gradually changed heading. The ground track was a segment of a circle (depending on how long I held the rudder). Supposedly MSFS can't do this, but it did. Adjusting the rudder yaws the aircraft. In ordinary level flight, this will tend to cause the aircraft to enter a turn. The asymmetric lift resulting from the yaw will tend to push the aircraft into a bank in the same direction as the rudder is turning the aircraft, and aerodynamic forces on the rest of the aircraft will assist this. The rudder can also be used to compensate for other forces acting about the yaw axis. It can be used to compensate for crosswinds or engine torque. It can be used to establish and maintain coordinated turns. And so on. You still haven't listed one time when the rudder does not change flight path. |
#150
|
|||
|
|||
Confusion about when it's my navigation, and when it's ATC
Sam Spade wrote:
I'd add the caveat that the value of listening to tower or TRACON, although, great, does not give the flavor of listening to center sectors adjacent to busy terminal airspace. For instance, all the descent stuff that might include PD clearances will occur on Los Angeles Center frequenices, high and low sectors, not on SoCal frequencies. Not sure if you are assuming that LiveATC.net only carries tower or TRACON frequencies or not, but in case you a LiveATC.net also carries many centner frequencies. As an example, LiveATC.net has many Boston and NY center frequencies. Another point is that LiveATC is made up of volunteers providing scanned frequencies. There are not a lot of western US frequencies on the site due simply to the lack of volunteers offering them. If you know anyone... -- Peter A LiveATC volunteer feeding KSYR tower and approach. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|