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#1
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Cross Country Minimums
What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home gliderport, i.e. go cross country? Thanks, Fred Houston, TX |
#2
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 13, 7:37*pm, Fred Blair wrote:
What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home gliderport, i.e. go cross country? Thanks, Fred Houston, TX Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport or "more than one thermal away". We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10 miles around the airport. We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel" keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the home airport. Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work on going to the next valley. T |
#3
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Cross Country Minimums
In article T writes:
On Apr 13, 7:37=A0pm, Fred Blair wrote: What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home gliderport, i.e. go cross country? Thanks, Fred Houston, TX Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport or "more than one thermal away". We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10 miles around the airport. We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel" keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the home airport. Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work on going to the next valley. T A difference that continues to amaze this power pilot, who went on cross countries of several hundred miles before being signed off to take the Private Pilot checkride. (Glider only folks: the cross country flights are a required part of pilot experience to get the airplane single ending land rating.) Having added a glider rating, I find soaring to be great fun, but it appears to be a lot more difficult to find a glider to fly than it is a powered aircraft, without owning a glider or signing up for a fairly expensive club membership. I think this is part of the attrition problem of soaring. People who get the rating find that there remain many restrictions on what they can do, and what aircraft they have available to them. Alan |
#4
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 14, 12:10*am, (Alan) wrote:
In article T writes: On Apr 13, 7:37=A0pm, Fred Blair wrote: What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home gliderport, i.e. go cross country? Thanks, Fred Houston, TX Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport or "more than one thermal away". We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10 miles around the airport. We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel" keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the home airport. Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work on going to the next valley. T * A difference that continues to amaze this power pilot, who went on cross countries of several hundred miles before being signed off to take the Private Pilot checkride. *(Glider only folks: the cross country flights are a required part of pilot experience to get the airplane single ending land rating.) * Having added a glider rating, I find soaring to be great fun, but it appears to be a lot more difficult to find a glider to fly than it is a powered aircraft, without owning a glider or signing up for a fairly expensive club membership. * I think this is part of the attrition problem of soaring. *People who get the rating find that there remain many restrictions on what they can do, and what aircraft they have available to them. * * * * Alan I don't think maybe as directly comparable as you are stating, given the basic level of proficiency in soaring needed start flying XC. In power land you are trained for XC flying as a part of your private ticket (I did mine when I was 17). But with glider certificates there is not necessarily much useful attention given to actually flying cross country. Lots of that actual training both in theory and practice happens by the goodwill of the instructor, club or other mentors and much often you have your ticket. And it takes some time to build up that soaring ability, flying laps around the local airport, flying larger triangles etc. are good starts. But I'll totally agree that there are just too many places where it is very hard to get good XC instruction/mentoring/rental XC ships etc. While it is sad to see some places where people are ground though a program and get a ticket then dropped becuase there are no XC ships or mentoring programs for them. And its completely not surprising of those people get their tickets and are never heard from again. On the other hand there are clubs and commercial FBOs that do good XC training and mentoring and have well equipped XC ships available to members/students (Williams Soaring, BASA/Hollister, and Soaring NV are operations with a good focus on XC that I've had personal experience with in Region 11 for example). And my favorite answer to when should pilots start flying XC is from day one. Sit them in a Duo or DG-1000S and take them XC. Give them a taste of what XC flying is like. Have them help do whatever they can if its just to see if they know where they are. Get them hooked. Repeat as frequently as possible during training. Duo Discuss class two seaters are just fantastic for this -- a XC ride in a Duo got me more than a little hooked. Darryl |
#5
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 13, 10:37*pm, Fred Blair wrote:
What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home gliderport, i.e. go cross country? Thanks, Fred Houston, TX Bronze badge, Silver duration, plus Silver Climb Bronze badge entails x-country training, (knowlege and demonstration of ability) 5 hour flight and 3280' climb shows the ability to thermal......most likely will be succesful in x-country attempt We encourage first x-country to be silver distance attempt Cookie |
#6
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Cross Country Minimums
At my club the first requisite is a minimum of 20 hours local flying.
Then we take them out in a motorglider or power plane to pick fields and practice several simulated outlandings without actually landing but getting low enough to see if the field was as good as it looked from above. This is extremely helpful!!. If it´s with a power plane we leave some throttle on to simulate glider performance. While they are students we try to give them plenty of thermal time and maybe fly a few ´´mini tasks´´ . As new pilots, we strongly encourage them to fly a little 30 km triangle around the airfield. By this time the aspiring XC pilots should have participated in at least a few retrieves so they are familiar with that aspect of the sport too. Every year we have an introductory class for the new XC pilots where we go over all the basics and we put a lot of emphasis on preparation, attitude and safety. During the winter months we usually have some more advanced classes on tactics, meteorology, etc. but this first class is the most important. If the pilot has the hours and necessary flying skills, has done the simulated outlandings and taken the intro class, he/she is ready to go. Most pilots go for a 100 km first task. My club has three PW5´s and everybody starts flying XC with these. With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can move up to a Jantar. Regards, Juan Carlos |
#7
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 14, 6:26*am, JC wrote:
With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can move up to a Jantar. That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if they must land. The rule would be satisfied by 37.5 local flying hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful requirement? Andy |
#8
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 14, 9:26*am, JC wrote:
At my club the first requisite is a minimum of 20 hours local flying. Then we take them out in a motorglider or power plane to pick fields and practice several simulated outlandings without actually landing but getting low enough to see if the field was as good as it looked from above. This is extremely helpful!!. If it´s with a power plane we leave some throttle on to simulate glider performance. While they are students we try to give them plenty of thermal time and maybe fly a few ´´mini tasks´´ . As new pilots, we strongly encourage them to fly a little 30 km triangle around the airfield. By this time the aspiring XC pilots should have participated in at least a few retrieves so they are familiar with that aspect of the sport too. Every year we have an introductory class for the new XC pilots where we go over all the basics and we put a lot of emphasis on preparation, attitude and safety. During the winter months we usually have some more advanced classes on tactics, meteorology, etc. but this first class is the most important. If the pilot has the hours and necessary flying skills, has done the simulated outlandings and taken the intro class, he/she is ready to go. Most pilots go for a 100 km first task. My club has three PW5´s and everybody starts flying XC with these. With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can move up to a Jantar. Regards, Juan Carlos Our club requires the Bronze Badge for cross country. We're fortunate to have a lot of good fields around the airport and a good grass airport about 10 miles away, which makes a good first step for aspiring cross country pilots. We include a little navigation training in the private pilot curriculum, but with only an L13 (currently grounded of course) and now a G103, dual cross country flying is not done. We've had several pilots move up from initial flight through cross country flying with us. However, the biggest problem our students have is the lack of time to master basic flying. I'm really amazed that anyone can learn to fly well with only one lesson every week or two, which is unfortunately what most of our students wind up doing. -- Matt |
#9
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Cross Country Minimums
On Apr 14, 11:16*am, Andy wrote:
On Apr 14, 6:26*am, JC wrote: With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can move up to a Jantar. That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if they must land. *The rule would be satisfied *by 37.5 local flying hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful requirement? Andy The rule is a guideline set in a context of common sense. Someone like you describe would never be allowed to transition and would most likely be required to do some dual instruction before trying another XC. Outlandings have to be while on a task and not just a glide to the neighbor´s field. A new XC pilot lands out quite often so most have their 5 landings by the end of their first season. I should have added that at least 10 local flights and precision landings are required before anyone can take one of the Jantars cross country for the first time. Juan Carlos |
#10
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Cross Country Minimums
That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if they must land. *The rule would be satisfied *by 37.5 local flying hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful requirement? Andy I understand where you're coming from but if off field landings automatically imply that a pilot is not very good at flying XC then I'm REALLY bad... |
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