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#131
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 05:44:19 GMT, "copertopkiller"
wrote: By the way. Where is that list of misconceptions of FAA Procedures? Not in any particular order: --Bryan, in a thread titled " JDAM BAM! 9/11 Hot DAMN!": NORAD could already see a good part of America. Which was refuted: Actually they didn't. http://www.stratnet.ucalgary.ca/elea...ings/today.htm " Because of the ongoing terrorist threat, NORAD changed its mission and the way it operates. Prior to September 11th, all of NORAD's attention was focused outside the borders of Canada and the United States. Little thought was given to the possibility of a serious security threat emerging from inside Canadian or US borders. After September 11th, NORAD's mission has changed to include monitoring US and Canadian airspace. NORAD has integrated with the US Federal Aviation Administration by placing an FAA employee inside NORAD and giving NORAD immediate access to FAA information. In Canada, military officers are now stationed at most of the major air traffic control centres and have been working with NAV Canada, Canada's air traffic control organization. The US has also used AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control Systems) aircraft to provide a fuller surveillance picture than is available from ground-based radars. NORAD fighters have done more routine patrols of North American airspace. " http://www.afa.org/magazine/Feb2002/...rad_print.html "On Sept. 11, NORAD was unaware that a problem existed until the Federal Aviation Administration, the civilian agency in charge of US air traffic, notified the command. For some time, the FAA had been the lead agency for handling events of "air piracy." NORAD and the FAA had a cooperative arrangement that left control of domestic airspace in the hands of the FAA. Domestic airliners were considered "friendly by origin," said a NORAD spokesman. In the wake of the attacks, NORAD has been closely monitoring all potential threats both inside and outside of US borders. Each day military detection and tracking systems designed to watch for bombers and missiles monitor 7,000 aircraft approaching the United States. NORAD officials said the command does not have constant access to the "interior" radar displays used by the FAA and said this is a potential area of improvement. In fact, the command is now working to achieve a more comprehensive level of vigilance that will not require reliance on the FAA for help monitoring domestic air traffic, Pennie said. "We need better connectivity" to guarantee access to domestic air traffic information generated by the FAA and its Canadian counterpart, he said. Civilian air traffic radars are separate from NORAD's "fence" of radars focused on external threats, Pennie explained. The rationale for this arrangement was that not only were Sept. 11-style hijackings not expected, but the Cold War mind-set was that "once a bomber got that far [past the NORAD fence] ... things were pretty bad." Unfortunately, Pennie reported, NORAD "simply can't connect all the radars" and create an all-inclusive radar monitoring facility. The technology simply does not exist to do this, and building an all-new radar system from the ground up would be time consuming and prohibitively expensive. For the time being, "working closely with the air traffic authorities" in the United States and Canada "is the way to go," Pennie said." --Bryan in the same thread: "An aircraft that deviates from pre-flight coordinates does constitute an emergency and is the main reason an escort or intercept is required. Your implying that becuase your thought process isn't specifically in written form it is untrue. The following item is why you are a foolish shill. http://www1.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1002.html" And the answer to that misconception is: And NO WHERE in that regulation does it say "It is routine procedure to scramble fighters when planes deviate from course" Yet another: "But we did have capable fighter aircraft loaded with missiles sitting on runways ready to intercept." Former senator Warren B. Rudman of New Hampshire, a Korean War veteran and national security expert, said it would have been "very unrealistic" to expect the military to have interceded successfully on Tuesday. "This country is not on a wartime footing," Rudman said. "We don't have capable fighter aircraft loaded with missiles sitting on runways in this country. We just don't do that anymore. We did back during the '70s, the '60s, along the coast, being concerned about Russian intrusion, but to expect American fighter aircraft to intercept commercial airliners, who knows where, is totally unrealistic and makes no sense at all." Yet another: "It is routine procedure to scramble fighters when planes deviate from course Snyder, the NORAD spokesman, said its fighters routinely intercept aircraft." Response: Not civilian aircraft flying within the United States, he didn't. In fact he specifically denied it. "We scramble aircraft to respond to any aircraft that we consider a potential threat. The hijacked aircraft were normal, scheduled commercial aircraft on approved flight plans and we only had 10 minutes prior notice to the first attack, which unfortunately was not enough notice," said Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder, a spokesman for NORAD headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. "This is an unprecedented event, unfortunately, and we're just going to have to adjust accordingly," Snyder said." If they did it routinely, what adjustment was needed? Yet another: Hijacked aircraft must be intercepted. Yet the FAA Regulations state: " '7-1-2. REQUESTS FOR SERVICE The escort service will be requested by the FAA hijack coordinator by direct contact with the National Military Command Center (NMCC). Normally, NORAD escort aircraft will take the required action. However, for the purpose of these procedures, the term "escort aircraft" applies to any military aircraft assigned to the escort mission. When the military can provide escort aircraft, the NMCC will advise the FAA hijack coordinator the identification and location of the squadron tasked to provide escort aircraft. NMCC will then authorize direct coordination between FAA and the designated military unit. When a NORAD resource is tasked, FAA will coordinate through the appropriate SOCC/ROCC. " Escort had to be requested by the FAA. Note the words "When the military can provide escort aircraft", which can only mean that it was not a requirement that they be provided. And another: Positive flight following means that the hijacked aircraft will follow the escort aircraft's instructions. here's a definition of "positive flight following": http://www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au/pdf_files/Av_sops_17.pdf. Positive flight following is the knowledge of the aircraft's position, and its condition at all times. And another: A scramble doesn't require the birds to be on alert status. Order 7610.4J, Special Military Operations, Section 1.3.2 http://www1.faa.gov/ATpubs/MIL/Ch1/mil0103.2.html#1-3-2 "Scramble. Departure of an aircraft training for or for the purpose of participating in an air defense mission. Scramble Order. A command and authorization for flight requiring time, of not more than 5 minutes, to become airborne. " And some of his all time greatest misconceptions: "Following FAA regulations would have prevented 9/11." FAA regulations were followed. "FAA regulations require NORAD to scramble aircraft in the event of a hijacking or an emergency." There are no such regulations. How can FAA regulations require NORAD to do anything? "Following procedures guarantees a successful outcome." Wouldn't doctors like this to be true? "The pilots of the interceptor aircraft would've or should've taken it on themselves to shoot down the hijacked airliners." Which is just nonsense. The list can go on and on. I summed it all up in a post on 5/20/2003. It's in Google, it can be retrieved: Here, I'll spell it out for you. 1.a. Intercepts by military aircraft of hijacked civilian airliners were not required on 9/11. b. Emergencies did not require the intercept of civilian airliners by military aircraft. c. Interception in these cases, when done, were to accomplish three things: -Positive flight following - meaning the military pilots were to maintain visual contact with the target. -Report unusual observances - Pretty self explanatory. -Aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency - Also pretty self explanatory. 2. Procedures were followed on 9/11. The ATC controllers determined that there was a hijacking, advised the FAA Hijack Controller, who notified NORAD and requested a military escort. NORAD made the decision to dispatch military aircraft. Aircraft were ordered aloft from the nearest alert bases (Otis and subsequently, Langley). And as you have pointed out, this was a "routine" event. 3. Even if those aircraft had made it to New York City before the planes hit the WTC, there was no reasonable action that they could have taken, given the information and the orders that the pilots had available to them, that would have prevented the crashes into the WTC. |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 05:51:19 GMT, "copertopkiller"
wrote: Not true. I will not becuase you more than else have been hammered with this argument. Not really, Bryan. You've never come close to laying a glove on me. Yeah, thats difficult to do from behind PC's although I was not thinking physically but argumentively. It was about FAA Procedures which you claim myself and others have misconceptions about. You know the procedures brought up. Why don't you list the misconceptions? poorboy Not in any particular order: --Bryan, in a thread titled " JDAM BAM! 9/11 Hot DAMN!": NORAD could already see a good part of America. Which was refuted: Actually they didn't. http://www.stratnet.ucalgary.ca/elea...ings/today.htm " Because of the ongoing terrorist threat, NORAD changed its mission and the way it operates. Prior to September 11th, all of NORAD's attention was focused outside the borders of Canada and the United States. Little thought was given to the possibility of a serious security threat emerging from inside Canadian or US borders. After September 11th, NORAD's mission has changed to include monitoring US and Canadian airspace. NORAD has integrated with the US Federal Aviation Administration by placing an FAA employee inside NORAD and giving NORAD immediate access to FAA information. In Canada, military officers are now stationed at most of the major air traffic control centres and have been working with NAV Canada, Canada's air traffic control organization. The US has also used AWACS (Airborne Warning and Control Systems) aircraft to provide a fuller surveillance picture than is available from ground-based radars. NORAD fighters have done more routine patrols of North American airspace. " http://www.afa.org/magazine/Feb2002/...rad_print.html "On Sept. 11, NORAD was unaware that a problem existed until the Federal Aviation Administration, the civilian agency in charge of US air traffic, notified the command. For some time, the FAA had been the lead agency for handling events of "air piracy." NORAD and the FAA had a cooperative arrangement that left control of domestic airspace in the hands of the FAA. Domestic airliners were considered "friendly by origin," said a NORAD spokesman. In the wake of the attacks, NORAD has been closely monitoring all potential threats both inside and outside of US borders. Each day military detection and tracking systems designed to watch for bombers and missiles monitor 7,000 aircraft approaching the United States. NORAD officials said the command does not have constant access to the "interior" radar displays used by the FAA and said this is a potential area of improvement. In fact, the command is now working to achieve a more comprehensive level of vigilance that will not require reliance on the FAA for help monitoring domestic air traffic, Pennie said. "We need better connectivity" to guarantee access to domestic air traffic information generated by the FAA and its Canadian counterpart, he said. Civilian air traffic radars are separate from NORAD's "fence" of radars focused on external threats, Pennie explained. The rationale for this arrangement was that not only were Sept. 11-style hijackings not expected, but the Cold War mind-set was that "once a bomber got that far [past the NORAD fence] ... things were pretty bad." Unfortunately, Pennie reported, NORAD "simply can't connect all the radars" and create an all-inclusive radar monitoring facility. The technology simply does not exist to do this, and building an all-new radar system from the ground up would be time consuming and prohibitively expensive. For the time being, "working closely with the air traffic authorities" in the United States and Canada "is the way to go," Pennie said." --Bryan in the same thread: "An aircraft that deviates from pre-flight coordinates does constitute an emergency and is the main reason an escort or intercept is required. Your implying that becuase your thought process isn't specifically in written form it is untrue. The following item is why you are a foolish shill. http://www1.faa.gov/ATpubs/ATC/Chp10/atc1002.html" And the answer to that misconception is: And NO WHERE in that regulation does it say "It is routine procedure to scramble fighters when planes deviate from course" Yet another: "But we did have capable fighter aircraft loaded with missiles sitting on runways ready to intercept." Former senator Warren B. Rudman of New Hampshire, a Korean War veteran and national security expert, said it would have been "very unrealistic" to expect the military to have interceded successfully on Tuesday. "This country is not on a wartime footing," Rudman said. "We don't have capable fighter aircraft loaded with missiles sitting on runways in this country. We just don't do that anymore. We did back during the '70s, the '60s, along the coast, being concerned about Russian intrusion, but to expect American fighter aircraft to intercept commercial airliners, who knows where, is totally unrealistic and makes no sense at all." Yet another: "It is routine procedure to scramble fighters when planes deviate from course Snyder, the NORAD spokesman, said its fighters routinely intercept aircraft." Response: Not civilian aircraft flying within the United States, he didn't. In fact he specifically denied it. "We scramble aircraft to respond to any aircraft that we consider a potential threat. The hijacked aircraft were normal, scheduled commercial aircraft on approved flight plans and we only had 10 minutes prior notice to the first attack, which unfortunately was not enough notice," said Marine Corps Major Mike Snyder, a spokesman for NORAD headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. "This is an unprecedented event, unfortunately, and we're just going to have to adjust accordingly," Snyder said." If they did it routinely, what adjustment was needed? Yet another: Hijacked aircraft must be intercepted. Yet the FAA Regulations state: " '7-1-2. REQUESTS FOR SERVICE The escort service will be requested by the FAA hijack coordinator by direct contact with the National Military Command Center (NMCC). Normally, NORAD escort aircraft will take the required action. However, for the purpose of these procedures, the term "escort aircraft" applies to any military aircraft assigned to the escort mission. When the military can provide escort aircraft, the NMCC will advise the FAA hijack coordinator the identification and location of the squadron tasked to provide escort aircraft. NMCC will then authorize direct coordination between FAA and the designated military unit. When a NORAD resource is tasked, FAA will coordinate through the appropriate SOCC/ROCC. " Escort had to be requested by the FAA. Note the words "When the military can provide escort aircraft", which can only mean that it was not a requirement that they be provided. And another: Positive flight following means that the hijacked aircraft will follow the escort aircraft's instructions. here's a definition of "positive flight following": http://www.bushfire.nsw.gov.au/pdf_files/Av_sops_17.pdf. Positive flight following is the knowledge of the aircraft's position, and its condition at all times. And another: A scramble doesn't require the birds to be on alert status. Order 7610.4J, Special Military Operations, Section 1.3.2 http://www1.faa.gov/ATpubs/MIL/Ch1/mil0103.2.html#1-3-2 "Scramble. Departure of an aircraft training for or for the purpose of participating in an air defense mission. Scramble Order. A command and authorization for flight requiring time, of not more than 5 minutes, to become airborne. " And some of his all time greatest misconceptions: "Following FAA regulations would have prevented 9/11." FAA regulations were followed. "FAA regulations require NORAD to scramble aircraft in the event of a hijacking or an emergency." There are no such regulations. How can FAA regulations require NORAD to do anything? "Following procedures guarantees a successful outcome." Wouldn't doctors like this to be true? "The pilots of the interceptor aircraft would've or should've taken it on themselves to shoot down the hijacked airliners." Which is just nonsense. The list can go on and on. I summed it all up in a post on 5/20/2003. It's in Google, it can be retrieved: Here, I'll spell it out for you. 1.a. Intercepts by military aircraft of hijacked civilian airliners were not required on 9/11. b. Emergencies did not require the intercept of civilian airliners by military aircraft. c. Interception in these cases, when done, were to accomplish three things: -Positive flight following - meaning the military pilots were to maintain visual contact with the target. -Report unusual observances - Pretty self explanatory. -Aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency - Also pretty self explanatory. 2. Procedures were followed on 9/11. The ATC controllers determined that there was a hijacking, advised the FAA Hijack Controller, who notified NORAD and requested a military escort. NORAD made the decision to dispatch military aircraft. Aircraft were ordered aloft from the nearest alert bases (Otis and subsequently, Langley). And as you have pointed out, this was a "routine" event. 3. Even if those aircraft had made it to New York City before the planes hit the WTC, there was no reasonable action that they could have taken, given the information and the orders that the pilots had available to them, that would have prevented the crashes into the WTC. |
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copertopkiller wrote:
Seems you are another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time needs to be known before measures can be taken. In most cases, to stop a specific attack that is correct. Lets forget about most cases and stay specific of this attack, Mort. I'm not Mort, but I am the one you replied to. OK then, this is the place where you stay specific of this attack. Are you another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time need to be known for measures to be taken? One has to have a better idea than somewhere in NYC in the next 25 months. What would you have done? Be specific but take all the screens you need. Do you still think nothing could have been done (as you've been told), no measures could have been taken to thwart this style of attack? I would like to ask you just exactly would you have done if you had been president. Where would you have placed your troops? Where would you have focused? What cities or buildings would you have tried to protect? How would you have known? And where do you get your resources from? How do you not answer the question? Do you still think nothing could have been done (as you've been told), no measures could have been taken to thwart this style of attack? Answer the questions, Copper top. Don't dance and weave. What exactly would you have done? What areas? What resource would you have used? For how long? I'm sure my reply to your response will answer the questions that you asked inplace of responding to the question. Wow! I'm sure that you have enough courage to sit there and say something should have been done, but you don't have the balls to put yourself on that line and say precisely what *you* would have done. -- Sleep well tonight.........RD (The Sandman) http://home.comcast.net/~rdsandman "The fatal attraction of government is that it allows busybodies to impose decisions on others without paying any price themselves." "It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong" Author Thomas Sowell |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:16:30 GMT, "copertopkiller"
wrote: Speed & distance has *everything* to do with aerial intercepts. If you cannot understand that basic fact, there is no help for you. Speed and distance that intercepts need to travel have nothing to do with procedures not being followed. So where in the procedures does it specify how fast the fighters should travel to intercept a hijacked civilian airliner? If it isn't specified, then how can you conclude that following the procedures would have prevented 9/11? snip If I was to use junk information, why would such a person as yourself who hasn't provided "reputable" information himself or even sufficiently classified what would be reputable be questioning anyone? Gee, Bryan, you just described yourself. |
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"Pete" wrote in message ... "copertopkiller" wrote Speed and distance that intercepts need to travel have nothing to do with procedures not being followed. This is a fact that you do not aseem to comprehend or be able to refute with data and/or by "reputable" cites. You were requested to supply the specifics and incorporate them into your statement anyway. You haven't and cannot be taken seriously. Speed references for an F-15 or -16: www.fas.org Distance from Otis ANGB, MA to NYC or Langley AFB, VA to Wash, DC : www.mapquest.com Have fun. snicker Now that's incorporating! They were not successful in intercepting the hijacked AC Why? Either they did not a) launch early enough, or b) fly fast enough Why not? That is the question... Was it some grand design conspiracy in the identification/authorization/launch/intercept process? Or was it considered to be a standard hijacking? (In which case alert jets were not always launched) The silence here is astounding. If none did, and that is what they were supposed to do....then why didn't they? You're the one making the claim. Fess up, son. I have made a claim that is widely known, moron. It is also 'widely known' that Elvis was sighted in 1995. Doesn't make it true, though. Listen kook, no highjacked AC was intercepted on 9/11. Pete bye bye for now. I'm on vacation for a few days. You need one, moron |
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wrote in message ... On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:16:30 GMT, "copertopkiller" wrote: Speed & distance has *everything* to do with aerial intercepts. If you cannot understand that basic fact, there is no help for you. Speed and distance that intercepts need to travel have nothing to do with procedures not being followed. So where in the procedures does it specify how fast the fighters should travel to intercept a hijacked civilian airliner? If it isn't specified, then how can you conclude that following the procedures would have prevented 9/11? Listen up, loser. Provide the list (your alleged list) of misconceptions surrounding 9/11 and FAA Procedures before you try to weasel out of it sliding into another irrelevant regurgitated comedic screenplay of yours. |
#137
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"RD (The Sandman)" wrote in message ... copertopkiller wrote: Seems you are another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time needs to be known before measures can be taken. In most cases, to stop a specific attack that is correct. Lets forget about most cases and stay specific of this attack, Mort. I'm not Mort, but I am the one you replied to. OK then, this is the place where you stay specific of this attack. Are you another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time need to be known for measures to be taken? One has to have a better idea than somewhere in NYC in the next 25 months. What would you have done? Be specific but take all the screens you need. And that is what one had. Now for a what I would have done commercial: DON'T BE LIKE THESE GUYS Bush entrusts Cheney to head the new Office of National Preparedness, a part of FEMA. This office is supposed to oversee a "national effort" to coordinate all federal programs for responding to domestic attacks. Cheney says to the press, "One of our biggest threats as a nation" may include "a terrorist organization overseas. We need to look at this whole area, oftentimes referred to as homeland defense." [New York Times, 7/8/02] Bush adds, "I will periodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts." Neither Cheney's review nor Bush's takes place before 9/11. "Bush [doesn't] speak again publicly of the dangers of terrorism before 9/11, except to promote a missile shield that had been his top military priority from the start." [Washington Post 1/20/02] Do you still think nothing could have been done (as you've been told), no measures could have been taken to thwart this style of attack? I would like to ask you just exactly would you have done if you had been president. Where would you have placed your troops? Where would you have focused? What cities or buildings would you have tried to protect? How would you have known? And where do you get your resources from? I wold not have placed troops anywhere. I would have placed Air Defense on high Alert. I would have activated more alert birds and placed them in close proximity to known strategic targets. These would be symbols of America which stand out and would be recognized around the world. I would have called a mandatory meeting with all pertinent agency heads about these warnings not just accept that they were being looked into only to go on vacation for a month. I would have collected and disseminated this information to all the pertinent agency's as a higher priority than the Military Industrial Complexes Missile Defense Pipe dream. I would have requested that the Intelligence community use all that they had to help determine a clearer picture. This of course could have been done by monitoring the markets world wide. They can do it in real-time yet they all must have been on coffee break or perhaps placing those options.Huh. I would have made sure that anything that could be used as a weapon on an AC was banned. I would have made sure that security around airports and employees were to immediately report or confront suspicious people in areas where they shouldn't be. This includes people with proper passes to move around airports. I would have forced the airlines to beef up their cockpit doors. Although this would not have been started or completed before the highjackings it was at least a measure taken for future security. I would have ordered to get security in place. I would have told the FAA to have there prople awake and working, not socializing amoungst themselves when planes veer off course, drop the transponder signal or stop communicating. I would have had the FBI do their job so we wouldn't need to have them and the country embarrassed by agents bringing lawsuits on not being allowed to do their jobs becuase it wasn't a priority or that they were actually obstructed and threatened if they persisted to follow up on these towelhead leads. Gee...one...two...three. It's not to difficult if you are really concerned with your peoples security. I am sorry your feeble mind actually need me to blaze through a common sense approach of what could have been done. |
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On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:49:44 GMT, "copertopkiller"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:16:30 GMT, "copertopkiller" wrote: Speed & distance has *everything* to do with aerial intercepts. If you cannot understand that basic fact, there is no help for you. Speed and distance that intercepts need to travel have nothing to do with procedures not being followed. So where in the procedures does it specify how fast the fighters should travel to intercept a hijacked civilian airliner? If it isn't specified, then how can you conclude that following the procedures would have prevented 9/11? Listen up, loser. Provide the list (your alleged list) of misconceptions surrounding 9/11 and FAA Procedures before you try to weasel out of it sliding into another irrelevant regurgitated comedic screenplay of yours. I already did if you had bothered to read it. Now, I guess we add another question to the long list you can't answer. |
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On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 02:10:15 GMT, "copertopkiller"
wrote: Do you still think nothing could have been done (as you've been told), no measures could have been taken to thwart this style of attack? I would like to ask you just exactly would you have done if you had been president. Where would you have placed your troops? Where would you have focused? What cities or buildings would you have tried to protect? How would you have known? And where do you get your resources from? I wold not have placed troops anywhere. I would have placed Air Defense on high Alert. I would have activated more alert birds and placed them in close proximity to known strategic targets. These would be symbols of America which stand out and would be recognized around the world. And how long would you have had these birds on alert, Bryan? A month? A year? Forever? The terrorists had all the time in the world to carry out their plot. And how many strategic targets would you have covered? 10? 50? 100? What do you consider a strategic target? A city? A nuclear power plant? A nuclear weapons plant? How many strategic targets are there in your universe? |
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"copertopkiller" wrote in message et... "RD (The Sandman)" wrote in message ... copertopkiller wrote: Seems you are another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time needs to be known before measures can be taken. In most cases, to stop a specific attack that is correct. Lets forget about most cases and stay specific of this attack, Mort. I'm not Mort, but I am the one you replied to. OK then, this is the place where you stay specific of this attack. Are you another moron who thinks the exact target, day and time need to be known for measures to be taken? One has to have a better idea than somewhere in NYC in the next 25 months. What would you have done? Be specific but take all the screens you need. And that is what one had. Now for a what I would have done commercial: DON'T BE LIKE THESE GUYS Bush entrusts Cheney to head the new Office of National Preparedness, a part of FEMA. This office is supposed to oversee a "national effort" to coordinate all federal programs for responding to domestic attacks. Cheney says to the press, "One of our biggest threats as a nation" may include "a terrorist organization overseas. We need to look at this whole area, oftentimes referred to as homeland defense." [New York Times, 7/8/02] Bush adds, "I will periodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts." Neither Cheney's review nor Bush's takes place before 9/11. "Bush [doesn't] speak again publicly of the dangers of terrorism before 9/11, except to promote a missile shield that had been his top military priority from the start." [Washington Post 1/20/02] Please note the dates of your articles: 7/8/02 and 1/20/02....now tell us how comments made then in any manner were a factor on 9/11/2001? |
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