SF Bay Area ---> Death Valley

I plan on taking my first trip from the Bay Area to Death Valley (
Furnace Creek) next week. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of
those familiar with the area.

It looks like Porterville - Kern Valley - China Lake is the safest route
to take. I have had a mountain checkout and am not thrilled about
staying below 1500' AGL to keep out of the MOAs in the Sierra Nevada
range.

I realize that you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can
anyone clue me in to whether or not they typically allow civilian
aircraft through at other altitudes during their operational hours?

Thanks,

MOAs don't "allow" anybody. They simply give you VFR advisories and vectors
for military aircraft.

Remember, if a F-117 hits you, both of you die. This is to the military
advantage to avoid. Just talk to Joshua Approach and they will do their
best to keep you from hitting military aluminum.

Jim



"Jonathan Sorger" wrote in message
...
I plan on taking my first trip from the Bay Area to Death Valley (
Furnace Creek) next week. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of
those familiar with the area.

It looks like Porterville - Kern Valley - China Lake is the safest route
to take. I have had a mountain checkout and am not thrilled about
staying below 1500' AGL to keep out of the MOAs in the Sierra Nevada
range.

I realize that you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can
anyone clue me in to whether or not they typically allow civilian
aircraft through at other altitudes during their operational hours?

Thanks,

On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 00:09:29 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote in
::

Remember, if a F-117 hits you, both of you die.

Actually, in the last three civil/military MOCs of which I am aware,
all the military pilots escaped unscathed. Unfortunately two of the
three civilian pilots did not.

"Jonathan Sorger" wrote in message
...
[...]
I realize that you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can
anyone clue me in to whether or not they typically allow civilian
aircraft through at other altitudes during their operational hours?

Well, not to encourage flight through active MOAs, but...

You are permitted to fly through a MOA, whether active or not. Flying IFR,
ATC will often route you around, but VFR there are no restrictions. There
is no "do they allow civilian aircraft through". If you want to fly
through, you do.

That said, contacting the controlling facility is still a good idea. You
may get flight following, or a suggested altitude to fly that will keep you
out of the way of any users of the MOA. Or at the very least, you may be
able to provide additional information (depending on radar coverage) that
will help the users avoid you.

I have had generally good luck dealing with controlling facilities for
military special use airspace. In once case, they even suspended activities
in a restricted area long enough for me to cut through the corner, so that I
could deviate around a thunderstorm (I was VFR, contacting the military
facility using the information on my chart).

I'm not familiar with that specific route, but I think you're wise to want
to avoid low-level flight in the mountainous terrain. It's doable if you
have to, but flying higher will give you a lot more options, and will
probably result in a more comfortable flight.

Pete

MOAs are listed on the sectional's legend area and have specific hours of
operation, usually sunrise M to sunset F. The FSS has the info. Just limit
yourself to weekends and you're fine.


"Jonathan Sorger" wrote in message
...
I plan on taking my first trip from the Bay Area to Death Valley (
Furnace Creek) next week. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of
those familiar with the area.

It looks like Porterville - Kern Valley - China Lake is the safest route
to take. I have had a mountain checkout and am not thrilled about
staying below 1500' AGL to keep out of the MOAs in the Sierra Nevada
range.

I realize that you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can
anyone clue me in to whether or not they typically allow civilian
aircraft through at other altitudes during their operational hours?

Thanks,

What are you flying? Generally (to DV or Vegas) I take what is
essentially V244, climbing up to Tuolomine Meadows on the North
side of the Yosemite park, then cross the ridge either at Tioga or
a little further south - the pass is clear on the sectional.
You need to be able to get to 13500'. At this time of the year,
assuming the weather is generally good, it should be fine - not too
bumpy. Obviously you want a day with only modest winds and no cloud
below 15000' or so.

It's a truly spectacular flight, I was thrilled the first time I
did it and the thrill doesn't get any less. As long as the weather is
good and the winds are low, it's as safe as mountain flying gets.
And the nice thing is that with some careful pilotage you can avoid
the MOAs completely.

In my experience the MOAs are generally hot on weekdays and cold on
weekends - which is what the sectional says too. I would not personally
be a huge fan of flying through a hot MOA, even though it is technically
allowed. Whilst mountain flying has its risks, at least mountains
pretty much stay put rather than whizzing about at Mach 2.

John

Jonathan Sorger wrote:

I plan on taking my first trip from the Bay Area to Death Valley (
Furnace Creek) next week. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of
those familiar with the area.

It looks like Porterville - Kern Valley - China Lake is the safest route
to take. I have had a mountain checkout and am not thrilled about
staying below 1500' AGL to keep out of the MOAs in the Sierra Nevada
range.

I realize that you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can
anyone clue me in to whether or not they typically allow civilian
aircraft through at other altitudes during their operational hours?

Thanks,

John,

It's a truly spectacular flight,


I fully agree. But you really need benign weather for that route - and
a somewhat capable plane.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Hi John,

Thanks for the suggestion... I had looked at that route, but since I'll
be flying a 172 I wasn't sure how sustainable the 13,500 altitude would
be (although I have taken it just below 14,000).

Good point about the mountains being stationary (and I will be flying
during the week).

Jonathan

In 1112887085.381549@sj-nntpcache-5 John Harper wrote:
What are you flying? Generally (to DV or Vegas) I take what is
essentially V244, climbing up to Tuolomine Meadows on the North
side of the Yosemite park, then cross the ridge either at Tioga or
a little further south - the pass is clear on the sectional.
You need to be able to get to 13500'. At this time of the year,
assuming the weather is generally good, it should be fine - not too
bumpy. Obviously you want a day with only modest winds and no cloud
below 15000' or so.

It's a truly spectacular flight, I was thrilled the first time I
did it and the thrill doesn't get any less. As long as the weather is
good and the winds are low, it's as safe as mountain flying gets.
And the nice thing is that with some careful pilotage you can avoid
the MOAs completely.

In my experience the MOAs are generally hot on weekdays and cold on
weekends - which is what the sectional says too. I would not
personally be a huge fan of flying through a hot MOA, even though it
is technically allowed. Whilst mountain flying has its risks, at least
mountains pretty much stay put rather than whizzing about at Mach 2.

John

Jonathan Sorger wrote:

I plan on taking my first trip from the Bay Area to Death Valley (
Furnace Creek) next week. I was wondering if I could pick the brains
of those familiar with the area. It looks like Porterville - Kern
Valley - China Lake is the safest route to take. I have had a
mountain checkout and am not thrilled about staying below 1500' AGL
to keep out of the MOAs in the Sierra Nevada range. I realize that
you contact Joshua Approach for the MOA status - can anyone clue me
in to whether or not they typically allow civilian aircraft through
at other altitudes during their operational hours? Thanks,

You have either never had a single-engine aircraft engine failure or believe
that you are invincible...both of which are tested when you take this route.

Jim



"John Harper" wrote in
message news:1112887085.381549@sj-nntpcache-5...
What are you flying? Generally (to DV or Vegas) I take what is
essentially V244, climbing up to Tuolomine Meadows on the North
side of the Yosemite park, then cross the ridge either at Tioga or
a little further south - the pass is clear on the sectional.

RST,

You have either never had a single-engine aircraft engine failure or believe
that you are invincible...both of which are tested when you take this route.


How? Why? There's a risk, alright - just as if you fly across the SF Bay at
sight-seeing altitudes, just as if you fly a single engine over any "difficult"
terrain, just as if you fly a twin, for that matter, according to the accident
stats. Heck, flying over the L.A. basin leaves you with WAY fewer emergency
landing possibilities than Tioga Pass.

Is the risk acceptable? In the summer, with a ton of meadows to land on in case
of engine failure? In the winter, when you spend a maximum of 20 minutes over
really high terrain? For me, it sure is. What kind of flying do you do that has
that much lower risk?


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)