If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
"C J Campbell" wrote in message ... "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message news "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... And he wouldn't cold-cock the guy trying to get out of the plane? Steven is slipping. It's his life, if he truly wants to end it that is his right. Agreed...vehemently. (Though the points made about falling hazards, etc., are quite legitimate. His life is his own, but go quietly into that long good-night..) Baloney. No one's life is their own, nor is anyone an island to themselves. No one can commit suicide without adversely affecting the lives of many others. (Well, maybe Saddam Hussein could.) For someone such as yourself who claimed an affinity with Ayn Rand, that's some of the most absurd drivel I've read in a long time. |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... In a previous article, "C J Campbell" said: punishment. But they just fall all over themselves supporting the right to commit suicide, euthanize old people, and kill unborn children. It has reached the point that the Democratic Party resembles nothing so much as a cult of death worshippers. Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do something unless it harmed others? That was back before they became a wholey owned subsidiary of the radical Christian Right. And according to CJ's profile on Jay's site, that's a dead-on assessment. |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do something unless it harmed others? Well, since that's pretty much still the case, yes, I do remember it. Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated. |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message et... I think the conservatives are far more intrusive in people's lives. Impossible. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated. I don't know how to provide an example of not making a law. |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do something unless it harmed others? Well, since that's pretty much still the case, yes, I do remember it. Well, CJ was just talking about those evil liberal "death worshipers" who want to repeal the laws that make it illegal to commit suicide that it seemed to be that it was Republicans who supported those laws in the first place. You know, laws that take away your right to do something that doesn't harm others. -- Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/ I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died. -- Steven Wright |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... Really? Still the case? An example or two would be appreciated. I don't know how to provide an example of not making a law. So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to power in 1995 don't exist? Wonder of wonders...!!! Maybe this will help your memory :~) The Awful Truth about Republicans By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton [Posted March 25, 2004] http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67 |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to power in 1995 don't exist? I would think that every law ever passed and not rescinded exists, regardless who was in power when it was passed. Wonder of wonders...!!! Maybe this will help your memory :~) The Awful Truth about Republicans By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton [Posted March 25, 2004] http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67 Well, if you knew of examples of laws that were not made, why ask me? |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... So, I suppose so many of those laws passed since the R's came to power in 1995 don't exist? I would think that every law ever passed and not rescinded exists, regardless who was in power when it was passed. Wonder of wonders...!!! Maybe this will help your memory :~) The Awful Truth about Republicans By Robert B. Ekelund, Jr., and Mark Thornton [Posted March 25, 2004] http://www.mises.org/fullarticle.asp?control=1476&id=67 Well, if you knew of examples of laws that were not made, why ask me? Cute. |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
"Tom Sixkiller" wrote in message ... "Paul Tomblin" wrote in message ... In a previous article, "C J Campbell" said: punishment. But they just fall all over themselves supporting the right to commit suicide, euthanize old people, and kill unborn children. It has reached the point that the Democratic Party resembles nothing so much as a cult of death worshippers. Remember the good old days, when it was the Republicans who thought that the government shouldn't make laws taking away your right to do something unless it harmed others? That was back before they became a wholey owned subsidiary of the radical Christian Right. And according to CJ's profile on Jay's site, that's a dead-on assessment. The radical Christian right might beg to differ with that view. When I was working on Troy Romero's campaign for state senate a few years ago, the local Journal-American pointed out that Troy is a 'Mormon' and recommended voting against him because of his Christian beliefs. The Christian right was so incensed at a 'Mormon' running for office that they fielded their own candidate and campaigned against Troy claiming that he is not a Christian. So I guess you just can't win for losing. It has always been like that. Still, the State of Illinois recently passed a resolution apologizing for the State sanctioned assassination of Joseph Smith (then the Presidential candidate of the Reform Party), seizing of all lands and assets belonging to 'Mormons,' official disenfranchisement of all members, driving them out of their homes in the middle of winter without adequate food and clothing, and using military force to burn and pillage the city of Nauvoo. That was very nice of them and the resolution was gratefully received by members of the Church. Still, you see the same attitudes that prevailed in those times are still around, even on this news group. A copy of the resolution is below: HR0627 LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r 1 HOUSE RESOLUTION 2 WHEREAS, 138 years ago Brigham Young and more than 20,000 3 members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints were 4 expelled from the State of Illinois after the Illinois General 5 Assembly withdrew its charter for the city of Nauvoo, Illinois 6 in Hancock County in 1844; and 7 WHEREAS, During a period of seven years of Illinois 8 history, from 1839 to 1846, Latter-day Saints built and 9 developed the city of Nauvoo into the largest city in the State 10 of Illinois and the tenth largest city in the nation; and 11 WHEREAS, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12 was established by Joseph Smith in Fayette, New York on April 13 6, 1830; and 14 WHEREAS, The Mormon Prophet, Joseph Smith, led the 15 community of Latter-day Saints from Fayette, New York to 16 Kirtland, Ohio in 1831; and from Ohio to Independence, 17 Missouri, in 1837; and 18 WHEREAS, Joseph Smith, a strong anti-slavery advocate, led 19 his community of some 15,000 Latter-day Saints to the 20 Mississippi River town of Nauvoo, in Illinois, following their 21 expulsion from the slave State of Missouri in 1839; and 22 WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints exercised 23 enormous industry and effort in the development and growth of 24 the town of Nauvoo, succeeding in creating a prosperous 25 community in which they drained the local swamp lands and 26 transformed them into productive agricultural and residential 27 environments; and 28 WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the Latter-day Saints were given 29 an extraordinary charter for the powers of home-rule by the HR0627 - 2 - LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r 1 Illinois General Assembly to create and preside over their own 2 court system and also to maintain their own military force, 3 second in size only to the United States Army; and 4 WHEREAS, Joseph Smith and the community of Latter-day 5 Saints exercised extensive missionary activities which drew 6 new Mormon settlers to the city Nauvoo, reaching a population 7 of some 20,000 citizens by 1844; and 8 WHEREAS, The prevailing economic conditions of the nation 9 in general, and Illinois in particular, faced a downturn in the 10 early 1840s, with the result that the rapidly growing 11 population of Nauvoo faced drastic levels of unemployment 12 without success in attracting needed industry; and 13 WHEREAS, During the period of their residency in Nauvoo, 14 Joseph Smith and his community of Latter-day Saints began as 15 political Democrats, transferring their political allegiance 16 to the Whig Party in both the elections of 1838 and 1840, 17 before once again transferring their affiliations back to the 18 Democratic Party in the election of 1842, until the 19 establishment of the Reform Party by Smith in time for the 20 election of 1844, when he began to seriously campaign for the 21 office of President of the United States; and 22 WHEREAS, The expression of political authority and power 23 within the community of Latter-day Saints was seen by many 24 citizens in Illinois as reasons for caution and concern, seeing 25 the control of local courts by Joseph Smith as autocratic, and 26 interpreting the leverage and influence of the Mormon 27 community's voting strength as an over influential forceful and 28 voting bloc; and 29 WHEREAS, Local religious customs among the Latter-day 30 Saints began to be viewed with suspicion, bias and 31 misunderstanding; and HR0627 - 3 - LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r 1 WHEREAS, Following the destruction of a local anti-Mormon 2 newspaper known as the Expositor, violence against the 3 Latter-day Saint community increased; and 4 WHEREAS, The Governor of the State of Illinois, Thomas 5 Ford, called out the Illinois Militia to keep order; and 6 WHEREAS, Governor Ford had the Prophet Joseph Smith and his 7 brother, Hiram Smith, jailed, on suspicion of complicity in the 8 destruction of the Expositor, in the nearby town jail of 9 Carthage, Illinois; and 10 WHEREAS, A violent mob stormed the Carthage jail on June 11 27, 1844, causing the deaths of Joseph and Hiram Smith; and 12 WHEREAS, Between 1844 and 1845, violent acts against the 13 community of Latter-day Saints increased in volume and 14 intensity, demonstrated in such acts as the burning of crops, 15 the destruction of homes and the threaten extermination of the 16 entire Mormon population; and 17 WHEREAS, Faced with the extremism against the community of 18 Latter-day Saints, Brigham Young, the new leader of the Nauvoo 19 community made plans to take his people out of Illinois; and 20 WHEREAS, Beginning on February 4, 1846, Brigham Young began 21 sending the community of Latter-day Saints out of their 22 homeland of Nauvoo, Illinois across the frozen waters of the 23 Mississippi River, in the largest forced migration in American 24 history; and 25 WHEREAS, Brigham Young made an exodus from the State of 26 Illinois, leading tens of thousands of men, women and children, 27 together with livestock and wagons that stretched across the 28 expansive winter horizon for miles; and HR0627 - 4 - LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r 1 WHEREAS, In this Mormon exodus, Brigham Young and the 2 community of Latter-day Saints left behind their life in 3 Illinois and the shining city that they had fashioned from both 4 their faith and the hard work of their hands; and 5 WHEREAS, Brigham Young and the community of Latter-day 6 Saints set off in the midst of winter for Utah, some 1300 miles 7 to the west; and 8 WHEREAS, The severity of the winter placed on Brigham Young 9 and the community of Latter-day Saints extreme hardships, 10 trudging across the Iowa Plains to the far side of that state 11 where they made a winter camp; and 12 WHEREAS, In the Spring of 1847, Brigham Young and the 13 community of Latter-day Saints began again their journey to 14 Utah, beyond the Rocky Mountain Range, to the valley of the 15 Great Salt Lake; and 16 WHEREAS, On July 24, 1847, Brigham Young and the community 17 of Latter-day Saints arrived in that valley following a trek of 18 more than five months, journeying across the heart of the 19 American continent, from the heartbreak of events in Nauvoo, 20 Illinois to a place of far-western refuge; and 21 WHEREAS, Within 50 years of their arrival in the territory 22 of Utah, the community of Latter-day Saint became the 45th 23 state in the Union on January 4, 1896; and 24 WHEREAS, The community of Latter-day Saints grew from a 25 population of 250,000 at the end of the 19th century to a 26 population of more than 10 million people in our present day; 27 and 28 WHEREAS, The goodness, patriotism, high moral conduct, and HR0627 - 5 - LRB093 16247 KEF 41881 r 1 generosity of the community of Latter-day Saints has enriched 2 the landscape of the United States and the world; and 3 WHEREAS, The biases and prejudices of a less enlightened 4 age in the history of the State of Illinois caused untolled 5 hardship and trauma for the community of Latter-day Saints by 6 the distrust, violence, and inhospitable actions of a dark time 7 in our past; therefore, be it 8 RESOLVED, BY THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES OF THE 9 NINETY-THIRD GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, that we 10 acknowledge the disparity of those past actions and suspicions, 11 regretting the expulsion of the community of Latter-day Saints, 12 a people of faith and hard work; and be it further 13 RESOLVED, That we asks the pardon and forgiveness of the 14 community of Latter-day Saints for the misguided efforts of our 15 citizens, Chief Executive and the General Assembly in the 16 expulsion of their Mormon ancestors from the gleaming city of 17 Nauvoo and the State of Illinois. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
IFR Passengers? | C Kingsbury | Instrument Flight Rules | 19 | November 4th 04 06:51 PM |
Passengers in flight at one time | Scott Summers | General Aviation | 0 | November 13th 03 02:23 PM |
Ownership and passengers | Roger Long | Owning | 30 | October 11th 03 02:00 PM |
Headphones For Passengers | Scott Lowrey | Piloting | 2 | August 20th 03 06:12 AM |
Canadians: Cost-sharing with passengers? | Drew Hamilton | Piloting | 2 | July 24th 03 08:23 PM |