Taxi Clearance

"Brenor Brophy" wrote in message
...
I'm based in California, but I've flown from controlled fields in both
Ireland (EIWF) and Sweden (ESSB) and I never had to get an engine start
clearance. So I'm not so sure that this is a pan European thing.

-Brenor

It depends on each airfield and how they want to organise things, therefore
it is important to either read the latest airfield information or check out
the ATIS before start.

They seem to have a rigid system of airways between city pairs so ground
holds are fairly common.

more important: the slots at the airports! Sometimes, it's so crowded they
don't let you take off because they know traffic at your destination is too
heavy for you to fit in :-/

Pat

"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.


Or, in other words, there's no requirement to call ground prior to engine
start.

john smith wrote:
I always call on the handheld to get my clearance prior to engine start.
That way, if there is a delay, I am not paying to keep the engine
running while I wait.

That's a difference between an owner and renter mindset. I always start first to
give the oil a little more time to get limbered and warm.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

Santa Monica (KSMO) requires you to call ground prior to engine start.



So just how do they require that?


- CURFEW: NO ENGINE STARTS OR DEPS EXPECT PPR LIFEGUARD FLTS 2300-0700 MON-FRI
AND 2300-0800 WKENDS.

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
news:1127763096.162487@sj-nntpcache-5...

- CURFEW: NO ENGINE STARTS OR DEPS EXPECT PPR LIFEGUARD FLTS 2300-0700
MON-FRI AND 2300-0800 WKENDS.


The tower is closed during those hours.

So.. if the ATIS says "contact ground/clearance" prior to engine start,
does that constitute instruction from "air traffic control" which must
be complied with except in an emergency?

and is not obtaining (and complying with any instructions on) the ATIS
failure to obtain all relevant information regarding the proposed flight?

Can you reconcile these concepts (loosely paraphrased from the part 91
rules regarding ops) with what you are saying that there is "no
requirement to call ground prior to engine start" when in some
circumstances there appears to be?

Dave

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Lynne" wrote in message
oups.com...

I think what you are forgetting is that the AIM is not regulatory. From
the looks of it, it is as if you're expecting to get a violation if you
start your engine prior to calling ground. That just won't happen.

This thread has gotten out of hand. The bottom line is that if you
start your engine, then get your clearance, then call ground, it may
end up wasting your time with the engine running if there are delays.
But, no matter what, you will never get in "trouble" for starting your
engine prior to getting the clearance, or talking to ground.



Or, in other words, there's no requirement to call ground prior to engine
start.

"Dave S" wrote in message
k.net...

So.. if the ATIS says "contact ground/clearance" prior to engine start,
does that constitute instruction from "air traffic control" which must be
complied with except in an emergency?


No. FAR 91.123(b) states, "Except in an emergency, no person may operate an
aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic
control is exercised." Ramps are not areas in which air traffic control is
exercised. Note that a taxi clearance is only required to operate on a
runway or taxiway. If I can taxi on a ramp without contacting ground
control I can certainly start an engine without calling them.



and is not obtaining (and complying with any instructions on) the ATIS
failure to obtain all relevant information regarding the proposed flight?


Not obtaining it might be, not complying with it is not.



Can you reconcile these concepts (loosely paraphrased from the part 91
rules regarding ops) with what you are saying that there is "no
requirement to call ground prior to engine start" when in some
circumstances there appears to be?


If there is a requirement to call ground prior to engine start it will be
found in the FARs. You will find no such requirement there.

The local flying field here has a statement on the ATIS telling departures
to five specific airports to advise ground control five minutes prior to
engine start. It's for flow control purposes, the five airports are those
for which a flow release is required. The only penalty for not calling
ground prior to engine start is the potential fuel wasted on the ground
waiting for the release time.