Radio Replacement

I think he said that they told him it was the MHz crystal in the
original post.
Dave
M35

RST Engineering wrote:
Then you've answered your own question. You are happy with what you've got
and it is the least expensive option. The 170 series is the most
bulletproof radio yet to hit the market, and I include the venerable old
MK-12 (radios that glow in the dark).

Jan Crystal (Ft. Myers FL, google on them for a phone number) keeps an
incredible file of crystal specifications and I'd give it a 95% probability
that they have that crystal spec on file. Last time I bought a 0.003%
crystal from them it cost me about $20 plus postage, so for $50 you've got
your crystal.

Installing a crystal is about as difficult as changing your oil. Uncowling
the ******* is the hardest part, both with radios and engines. Once opened
up, finding the correct crystal to change is the hard part, but since your
radio shop just changed the crystal, I'd bet on the one that is has the
shiniest solder joints.

I've got the service manual ... WAIT JUST A FRIGGIN MINNIT ... the 170 is a
SYNTHESIZED radio; all the channels are derived from ONE MASTER
CRYSTAL...either ALL the channels work or none work, with the exception of a
dirty switch or a broken switch. Is it possible ... do ya think ... that
your radio shop is BULL****TING YOU???

You've got two crystals on the com side of the radio. One is the kHz.
crystal and one is the MHz. crystal. All the switches do is control a
digital divider that splits the single crystal into discrete channels.

Now, given that information, where do you think we should go?

Jim




"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...


I have (2) KX170B radios which I'm very happy with

In article ,
"RST Engineering" wrote:
You've got two crystals on the com side of the radio. One is the kHz.
crystal and one is the MHz. crystal. All the switches do is control a
digital divider that splits the single crystal into discrete channels.

The avionics shop said that the MHz crystal was shot, and the kHz
crystal was almost shot. Since I know that the radio has problems
during transmit, I don't know what incentive the shop would have to be
less than truthful. I did check with two other very reputable avionics
repair departments, in addition to Gary Glassmeyer (who seems to have a
decent reputation), and all of them said that the bench tech's diagnosis
was either likely or could certainly be valid.

What folks seem to disagree on is the ability to repair the radio. My
local avionics shop is telling me that it is essentially unrepairable,
which I've since determined isn't quite true. It is true that the parts
to repair it are no longer sold by Honeywell, but they are available.
Everyone is also telling me that parts are becoming more difficult to
find.

I think I've decided to have the radio fixed. I haven't completely
decided on whether to have the local avionics shop install the used
KX155 (I believe it has a GS receiver), because $2500 for the radio and
install seems like a decent deal based on the used prices I've seen for
the KX155/GS. The obvious disadvantage is that, should the KX155 fail,
I can't swap in a KX170B...so maybe that answers the question.



JKG

Data point: A prospective buyer just told me he had decided not to buy my
airplane solely on the basis of its not having a 430 installed.

A red herring to anyone not thinking of selling any time soon. Besides,
even the 430 installation won't get anywhere near the money back as what
was spent on it. Although an interesting anecdote, absolutely useless I
think for considering what radio to put in the plane in question.

Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that when I was looking for an airplane
just over a year ago, I would not even look at one that didn't have a
Garmin 430 as a minimum. There are buyers that think that way and there
are enough airplanes out there with G430 or better that a buyer will
find one if it is important to him.

I understand that buyers want one in the plane, however, buyers RARELY
will pay for the actual cost of putting one in. That was my point. I
was not arguing that it does not make the plane desirable - just that it
is not worth the money just so that it can sell.

For me it was as much about downtime as anything. I wasn't willing to
buy an airplane without the panel I required and then have it be down at
the avionics shop for weeks to months getting it the way I needed.

There are lots of buyers out there with lots of different requirements;
my point was there are some airplanes (those without a Garmin 430 as an
example) that simply would not sell at all, to me, due to this
deficiency. It wasn't that these airplanes were less desirable for me to
purchase, they were not even considered for purchase.

--
Ken Reed
M20M, N9124X

"Tim" wrote:

Although an interesting anecdote, absolutely useless I think for
considering what radio to put in the plane in question.


The point was not about getting anywhere near the money back as what was
spent on it (sic).

The point is that an older airplane without a 430 is more difficult to sell
than one so equipped; hardly a useless consideration when considering a
NAV/COM upgrade.


Um, I don't see how it is a good thing to throw money away just so that the
plane sells... If, at some time the owner wants to sell, he/she can always
put it in the panel or reduce the price.

Spending 12k on a 430 and then getting maybe 1k more on the sale over what
was in the panel originally is not really worth it - you are doing yourself
no favors.

You're still not getting it.

In article ,
"Dan Luke" wrote:
Although an interesting anecdote, absolutely useless I think for
considering what radio to put in the plane in question.


The point was not about getting anywhere near the money back as what was
spent on it (sic).

The point is that an older airplane without a 430 is more difficult to
sell
than one so equipped; hardly a useless consideration when considering a
NAV/COM upgrade.


Um, I don't see how it is a good thing to throw money away just so that the
plane sells... If, at some time the owner wants to sell, he/she can always
put it in the panel or reduce the price.

Spending 12k on a 430 and then getting maybe 1k more on the sale over what
was in the panel originally is not really worth it - you are doing yourself
no favors.

You're still not getting it.

To me, it doesn't make sense to agonize over buying (or selling) a plane
based on whether it has a 430 in it or not. In my case, even if I had
the 430, there would be folks who wouldn't look at the plane because it
doesn't have leather, or it doesn't have a newer audio panel, or it
doesn't have an autopilot, or it doesn't have one thing or another that
they're looking for. If I was looking at a plane, avionics would be one
of the last things I'd look at, and when I did look at avionics, I'd
negotiate the price down if I felt that avionics work was needed. At
that point, it would be up to the seller to determine whether there was
a market for his plane at his asking price.

The reality is that, despite what some people may think, a 430 is not
required equipment in an airplane these days, even if you fly IFR.
There may be folks whose use of the plane will benefit from an IFR GPS,
but my guess is that it is a true requirement for very few.



JKG

I think I've decided to have the radio fixed.

One other option, perhaps already mentioned, is the TKM MX-170B. This
digital replacement radio slides right into the KX-170B tray, and
works quite well.

When one of our KX-170Bs went TU in our old Warrior, we replaced it
with an MX-170B. It was bullet-proof, with better (and clearer)
transmission and reception than our COM 2, which was another KX-170B.

And, as I recall, it was much less expensive than fixing the
KX-170B...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The reality is that, despite what some people may think, a 430 is not
required equipment in an airplane these days, even if you fly IFR.

The 430 today is what the Loran was when I started flying. If you
didn't have an in-panel Loran receiver in your panel in the early
'90s, you didn't have a desireable aircraft.

Now, of course, they are all boat anchors (as the 430 will be in ten
years) -- but back then, they were EVERYTHING.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:

To me, it doesn't make sense to agonize over buying (or selling) a plane
based on whether it has a 430 in it or not. In my case, even if I had
the 430, there would be folks who wouldn't look at the plane because it
doesn't have leather, or it doesn't have a newer audio panel, or it
doesn't have an autopilot, or it doesn't have one thing or another that
they're looking for.

Wait 'til you're actually trying to sell and you might feel differently. When
I first tried to sell the plane a couple of years ago, I talked to a dealer
about trading up. His first question about my airplane? "Does it have a
430?"

If I was looking at a plane, avionics would be one
of the last things I'd look at, and when I did look at avionics, I'd
negotiate the price down if I felt that avionics work was needed. At
that point, it would be up to the seller to determine whether there was
a market for his plane at his asking price.

The reality is that, despite what some people may think, a 430 is not
required equipment in an airplane these days,

When you're selling, what people think is everything.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Dan Luke wrote:
"Tim" wrote:


Although an interesting anecdote, absolutely useless I think for
considering what radio to put in the plane in question.


The point was not about getting anywhere near the money back as what was
spent on it (sic).

The point is that an older airplane without a 430 is more difficult to sell
than one so equipped; hardly a useless consideration when considering a
NAV/COM upgrade.


Um, I don't see how it is a good thing to throw money away just so that the
plane sells... If, at some time the owner wants to sell, he/she can always
put it in the panel or reduce the price.

Spending 12k on a 430 and then getting maybe 1k more on the sale over what
was in the panel originally is not really worth it - you are doing yourself
no favors.


You're still not getting it.




Um, pot, meet kettle.

Dan Luke wrote:
"Jonathan Goodish" wrote:


To me, it doesn't make sense to agonize over buying (or selling) a plane
based on whether it has a 430 in it or not. In my case, even if I had
the 430, there would be folks who wouldn't look at the plane because it
doesn't have leather, or it doesn't have a newer audio panel, or it
doesn't have an autopilot, or it doesn't have one thing or another that
they're looking for.


Wait 'til you're actually trying to sell and you might feel differently. When
I first tried to sell the plane a couple of years ago, I talked to a dealer
about trading up. His first question about my airplane? "Does it have a
430?"


If I was looking at a plane, avionics would be one
of the last things I'd look at, and when I did look at avionics, I'd
negotiate the price down if I felt that avionics work was needed. At
that point, it would be up to the seller to determine whether there was
a market for his plane at his asking price.

The reality is that, despite what some people may think, a 430 is not
required equipment in an airplane these days,


When you're selling, what people think is everything.



SO let me get this straight: You spend $12k just to make the plane
desirable - the OP clearly stated he didn't need the equipment. Then
the buyers will pay maybe 1k to 2k over the price of the plane without
that 430 in it. And this is good advice?

Thanks, I'll pass. I can navigate with 2 VORs just fine.