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Shoulder strap discussion



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 09, 02:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default Shoulder strap discussion

A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. There's got to be
a better way.

This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.

What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.

Do these things already exist? Discussion?
  #2  
Old June 8th 09, 04:01 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Shoulder strap discussion

Once again, the purpose of shoulder straps is NOT to keep your had
from hitting the canopy! The ONLY purpose of shoulder straps is to
keep your head from hitting the instrument panel. If you are hitting
the canopy, tighten your lap belt!

On Jun 8, 9:36*am, bildan wrote:
A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. *No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. *This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. *There's got to be
a better way.

This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.

What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? *They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. * The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. *These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.

Do these things already exist? *Discussion?


  #3  
Old June 8th 09, 04:11 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 23
Default Shoulder strap discussion

On Jun 8, 9:36*am, bildan wrote:
A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. *No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. *This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. *There's got to be
a better way.

This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.

What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? *They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. * The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. *These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.

Do these things already exist? *Discussion?


What you really need is a 6 point harness. ( 6 is better than 5
points )

see http://home.netcom.com/~pappa3/files...20harness.jpeg
Also do a search in in RAS for crotch strap, 5 point or 6 point
harnesses.

The problem with the 4 point system is that there is no force holding
the shoulder straps down except the waist belt. And since the shoulder
straps pull up on the middle of the waist belt, they will always
slip. I was able to rig the 6 strap system using the existing waist
belt anchors in my G102.

And always put foam in your hat for ridge flying.

Todd
3S


  #4  
Old June 8th 09, 04:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JC
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Shoulder strap discussion

On Jun 8, 10:36*am, bildan wrote:
A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. *No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. *This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. *There's got to be
a better way.

This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.

What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? *They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. * The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. *These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.

Do these things already exist? *Discussion?




Was your lap belt tight? Does the G 102 have a crotch strap? Those are
the straps that will keep your bottom in contact with the seat during
negative G´s. You don´t want to lower the attachment points of the
shoulder straps as this could lead to spinal compression in an
accident.

Regards,

Juan Carlos

  #5  
Old June 8th 09, 04:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Uncle Fuzzy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 260
Default Shoulder strap discussion

On Jun 8, 6:36*am, bildan wrote:
A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. *No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. *This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. *There's got to be
a better way.

This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.

What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? *They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. * The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. *These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.

Do these things already exist? *Discussion?


I have the same issue with my Speed Astir. No matter how tight the
lap and shoulder belts are, my head bashes the canopy with every
strong bump. In 2006, I bashed the canpy OFF the glider. That was
exciting. I've also considered rigid foam pads atop my shoulders. If
you try it, please post up how well it works.
Thanks
  #6  
Old June 8th 09, 04:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 256
Default Shoulder strap discussion

The problem with the 4 point system is that there is no force holding
the shoulder straps down except the waist belt.


This depends on where exactly the lap belt is fitted to the fuselage.
E.g. in the DG-1000, the 4 point belt holds me perfectly in the seat
even when flying inverted.
  #7  
Old June 8th 09, 05:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,384
Default Shoulder strap discussion

The lap belt and 5th (and 6th if you deem necessary) points should
feel like a snug climbing harness holding your pelvis down. The
shoulder straps then have something decent to attach to, and don't
need to be tight enough to play bass guitar on.
Having the shoulder strap points below shoulder height and too tight
will only serve to decrease pilot comfort.
The design of the seat pan doesn't matter. A crotch strap system is
needed in all gliders. Don't let the lap belt ride up.
If the belts slip because they're old, don't just keep tightening
them. Get them rebuilt (new webbing) or buy new ones.
Jim
  #8  
Old June 8th 09, 05:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 256
Default Shoulder strap discussion

JS wrote:

A crotch strap system is needed in all gliders.


Make that "many". E.g. with the DG-1000 I fly negative aerobatics
comfortably with the 4 point harness.
  #9  
Old June 8th 09, 05:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default Shoulder strap discussion

On Jun 8, 9:01*am, wrote:
Once again, the purpose of shoulder straps is NOT to keep your had
from hitting the canopy! The ONLY purpose of shoulder straps is to
keep your head from hitting the instrument panel. If you are hitting
the canopy, tighten your lap belt!

On Jun 8, 9:36*am, bildan wrote:

A couple of years ago I got hammered in a wave rotor while flying a
G102. *No matter how tight the shoulder straps, my head kept banging
into the canopy. *This is a big enough problem that some glider owners
are re-locating the shoulder strap anchors lower. I think modifying
the seat belt/shoulder harness is a primary structure issue requiring
337 field modification paperwork in most countries. *There's got to be
a better way.


This issue came up again recently which led me to some "out-of-the-
box" thinking which is the reason for this thread.


What if one had inverted "U" shaped, detachable shoulder pad(s) that
snapped or Velcro'd to the shoulder straps or maybe the parachute
harness? *They would come in various sizes to fit different pilots.
In effect, these would raise the pilots shoulders with pads instead of
lowering the strap attachment points. * The pads would press down on
the pilots shoulders as the straps were tightened preventing canopy
head banging. *These pads would be 'personal gear' and not require a
337.


Do these things already exist? *Discussion?


With a reclining cockpit, lap belts won't keep your head off the
canopy. Only the shoulder belts can help with that.

The 102 lap belts WERE tight.
  #10  
Old June 8th 09, 06:03 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 646
Default Shoulder strap discussion

Keep in mind that cockpit/belt 'fit' differs widely with pilot
physique. 4-point belts which works great for one pilot may be
problematic for another. 5/6 point belts work great for me and I like
them. Unfortunately, they aren't fitted (or available) for all
gliders. Even if they are available, it would involve a form 337 to
install them. There are really no absolutes.

The shoulder pad idea is just to gain yet another option for smaller
pilots.

I took a look at my parachute and it already has thin shoulder pads on
the harness. Unfortunately, they are rounded on top which makes the
shoulder belts tend to slide off. I think I'll ask my rigger if
something could be done about that.
 




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