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JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 22nd 10, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Jim Wilkins
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Posts: 57
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

On Mar 21, 7:33*pm, hcobb wrote:
On Mar 21, 7:18*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky
hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator.


jsw


For that kind of target you go PAM! PAM! PAM!

-HJC


Call for your mother?
Ads
  #22  
Old March 22nd 10, 06:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Andrew Swallow
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Posts: 32
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

Jack Linthicum wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:50 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 9:07 am, Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Mar 21, 9:02 am, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 8:00 am, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
...
How do you tell the artillery to hit 150 meters NNW of the purple
smoke, or is that still relevant?
jsw
GPS and lasers

I helped develop some of that stuff and would be cautious about
relying on it against a technically sophisticated enemy who could
localize the emissions or spoof GPS with pseudolites.

Enough said, no examples this time.

jsw


When was the last time the U.S. military faced a "technically
sophisticated enemy"? How do you spoof military GPS?


China has a few modern weapons.

Andrew Swallow
  #23  
Old March 22nd 10, 07:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Ian B MacLure
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Posts: 100
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

[snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.


The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
pinpoint accuracy.

IBM
  #24  
Old March 22nd 10, 09:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Jack Linthicum
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Posts: 301
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

On Mar 22, 3:04*am, Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

* * * * [snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.


* * * * The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
* * * * are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
* * * * pinpoint accuracy.

* * * * IBM


But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?
  #25  
Old March 22nd 10, 11:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Peter Skelton
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Posts: 93
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

On Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:48:36 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Mar 22, 3:04*am, Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

* * * * [snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.


* * * * The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
* * * * are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
* * * * pinpoint accuracy.

* * * * IBM


But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?


Start with "This is no ****". Nothing changes.

Peter Skelton
  #26  
Old March 22nd 10, 03:54 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
hcobb
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Posts: 64
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

On Mar 21, 6:09*pm, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 21, 7:33*pm, hcobb wrote:

On Mar 21, 7:18*am, Jim Wilkins wrote:


Good point. I was thinking of gun positions concealed on a rocky
hillside, able to target laser flashes and kill the designator.


jsw


For that kind of target you go PAM! PAM! PAM!


-HJC


Call for your mother?


Oh do keep up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM501_N...on_.28P AM.29

-HJC
  #27  
Old March 22nd 10, 10:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Arved Sandstrom[_2_]
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Posts: 14
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

Ian B MacLure wrote:
Arved Sandstrom wrote in news:Hegpn.71557$PH1.6315
@edtnps82:

[snip]

What's really ludicrous is the thought of using any planes this costly
as bomb trucks for ground support. Can you see putting a gold-plated
aircraft like this at risk of getting shot down by cheapo AAA? Just to
deliver some bombs in support of grunts? If it ever did happen, the
ground units would be using every artillery tube they had shooting SEAD
to protect these precious planes...begging the question of why the
artillery wouldn't just pound the main target in the first place.


The days of streaking in at tree top level for a lay down attack
are probably over. JTACs can call in PGMs from 20000 ft with
pinpoint accuracy.

IBM


That may be true. But given that radar stealth doesn't mean radar
invisible, flying at 20,000+ feet doesn't exactly make you safe from
SAMs. And even if the F-35 is dropping some PGM glide-bomb from 50 nm
away he's still over some other patch of ground with SAMs and their radars.

And if that's all the plane is going to do is stand off at incredible
distances to launch ordnance, we can't have cheaper planes do the same
thing? Or just build a ****load of cruise missiles?

AHS
  #28  
Old March 23rd 10, 01:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Ian B MacLure
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Posts: 100
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

" Sunny" wrote in news:xXhpn.14133$pv.11282
@news-server.bigpond.net.au:

[snip]

Here in Australia our stupid Govt. has not yet cancelled orders for the
thing.
As for artillery, you have to get the tubes and ammo close enough first,
to support the Infantry. (Ex Grunt with 36 years service.)
We should have bought F15s to replace our F111 :-)


As to artillery, things have changed recently. First round hits
from 30+ km for tube artillery and 75km for MLRS are not uncommon.
A single MLRS or truck mounted version thereof can cover an area
150km in diameter.
What JSF does is give you longer range strike capacity and H hour
ability to take out high value targets undetected until things are
supposed to go pear shaped.

IBM
  #29  
Old March 23rd 10, 01:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Ian B MacLure
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

Jack Linthicum wrote in
:

[snip]

But with no aircraft to engage and UAVs and PGMs taking over for
"streaking in at tree top level" what's a hero-pilot to do back at the
O Club?


Well somebody has to kick the door in. Thats where the JSF applies.
Kick the door in at H-Hour then come back the next day and let it
all hang out.

IBM

  #30  
Old March 23rd 10, 01:51 AM posted to rec.aviation.military,rec.aviation.military.naval,sci.military.naval
Ian B MacLure
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default JSF Price Tag Jumps to $135 Million

Arved Sandstrom wrote in
news:[email protected]:

[snip]

That may be true. But given that radar stealth doesn't mean radar
invisible, flying at 20,000+ feet doesn't exactly make you safe from
SAMs. And even if the F-35 is dropping some PGM glide-bomb from 50 nm
away he's still over some other patch of ground with SAMs and their
radars.


And who says the SAMs are going to know the JSF is there until
things start going pear shaped?

And if that's all the plane is going to do is stand off at incredible
distances to launch ordnance, we can't have cheaper planes do the same
thing? Or just build a ****load of cruise missiles?


And weren't we discussing CAS not IDS.

IBM
 




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