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#101
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Mode S Transponders....
OK, OK. So the Jocks have a couple of wave windows
that can be activated in advance by a telephone call in accordance with a local agreement. We have nothing like that in Southern England! I do hope you are not in favour of mandatory Mode S Transponders in all aircraft (includes gliders, hang gliders, paragliders and balloons). Derek Copeland At 09:12 06 September 2006, Rory O'Conor wrote: Oh really? Please read http://www.scottishglidingcentre.co....space%20MoU%20 BGA%20 2005%20lores.pdf And then re-comment. Rory ------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring Subject: Mode S Transponders.... Author: Derek Copeland Date/Time: 17:20 05 September 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------ In the UK we are not allowed to fly Gliders in Class A or Airways, full stop, period! |
#102
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Mode S Transponders....
The only significant reason to oppose such a proposal are the costs
involved. What is really needed is a concerted effort to come up with a truely low cost transponder or ADS-B transmitter (~$200), so that it becomes a no brainer to carry one on everything that flies. Mike Schumann "Derek Copeland" wrote in message ... OK, OK. So the Jocks have a couple of wave windows that can be activated in advance by a telephone call in accordance with a local agreement. We have nothing like that in Southern England! I do hope you are not in favour of mandatory Mode S Transponders in all aircraft (includes gliders, hang gliders, paragliders and balloons). Derek Copeland At 09:12 06 September 2006, Rory O'Conor wrote: Oh really? Please read http://www.scottishglidingcentre.co....space%20MoU%20 BGA%20 2005%20lores.pdf And then re-comment. Rory ------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring Subject: Mode S Transponders.... Author: Derek Copeland Date/Time: 17:20 05 September 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------ In the UK we are not allowed to fly Gliders in Class A or Airways, full stop, period! |
#103
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Mode S Transponders....
There are other issues at stake. These include the
possibility of airspace charging, the cost of an approved installation now that EASA has so kindly taken us under its control and the risk of being fined or grounded should we inadvertantly infringe controlled airspace even if only by a few metres. Will we be breaking the law if we forget to turn the transponders on, or if they or the batteries fail in flight? One of the main characteristics of our current New Labour Government is the number of usually stupid new laws they have introduced that it is now possible to fall foul of! As to the safety issue, the Air Traffic Controllers at our local airport have already admitted that they will almost certainly filter out our returns to reduce clutter on their radar screens! The only possible gains we get from all this cost and hassle are slightly reduced risks of being knocked out of the sky by a TCAS/ACAS equipped airliners or UAVs. As there has never been such a collision in the UK, is a reduction of an almost zero risk really that worthwhile? Mode S does nothing to reduce the much more probable risk of colliding with another glider or light aircraft! Derek Copeland At 13:12 06 September 2006, Mike Schumann wrote: The only significant reason to oppose such a proposal are the costs involved. What is really needed is a concerted effort to come up with a truely low cost transponder or ADS-B transmitter (~$200), so that it becomes a no brainer to carry one on everything that flies. Mike Schumann 'Derek Copeland' wrote in message ... OK, OK. So the Jocks have a couple of wave windows that can be activated in advance by a telephone call in accordance with a local agreement. We have nothing like that in Southern England! I do hope you are not in favour of mandatory Mode S Transponders in all aircraft (includes gliders, hang gliders, paragliders and balloons). Derek Copeland At 09:12 06 September 2006, Rory O'Conor wrote: Oh really? Please read http://www.scottishglidingcentre.co....space%20MoU%20 BGA%20 2005%20lores.pdf And then re-comment. Rory ------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroup: rec.aviation.soaring Subject: Mode S Transponders.... Author: Derek Copeland Date/Time: 17:20 05 September 2006 ------------------------------------------------------------ In the UK we are not allowed to fly Gliders in Class A or Airways, full stop, period! |
#104
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Mode S Transponders....
Pity that Derek does not appear to have read the references provided by
Rory. The items on the SGU website relate to the Scottish TMA around Edinburgh and a local agreement between the SGU and NATS Edinburgh that permits easier access to the South though defined routes, an agreement between the BGA, SGU and Scottish Air Traffic relating to crossing the airwayS viz P600 andB226 subject to prior notification and radio calls, and an agreement between the BGA, SGU and the Scottish Control centre that permits gliders from Portmoak access to the Northern part of the Scottish TMA and southern part of P600 at weekends. No mention of the Scottish Wave boxes in any of these. |
#105
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Mode S Transponders....
Mike Schumann wrote:
The only significant reason to oppose such a proposal are the costs involved. What is really needed is a concerted effort to come up with a truely low cost transponder or ADS-B transmitter (~$200), so that it becomes a no brainer to carry one on everything that flies. Not quite. It also needs to: - contain the equivalent of a PCAS receiver - fit a single panel position (preferably 57mm like the Filser and Microair mode-S transponders do) In addition is should probably: - be light (under 900 grams) - have a low power requirement, ideally no more than a glider radio but certainly under 600 mA average -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#106
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Mode S Transponders....
"W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\)." wrote in
: Fitting a transponder would do hardly anything to reduce collision risk for most gliding in the UK. It will only help those who can and want to fly high in wave. I note that there are moves to have unmanned aircraft (UAVs) flying in UK airspace, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5198364.stm The current rules and procedures presume that all aircraft contain functioning eyeballs and brains that can look out the window. If they don't then the rules and procedures have to be rethought. Anybody see a connection with mandatory transponders? |
#107
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Mode S Transponders....
Yes, we all see the connection.
How are they planning to avoid hang and paragliders? The BGA has made a response as an organisation to the recent PRIA, it is to be found at http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/BGARIAResponseFinal.doc for the response document, and at http://www.gliding.co.uk/forms/Email...rLetterRIA.pdf for the covering letter. There were some 3,000 responses sent to the DAP. On UAVs the BGA says in Response 1 Issue 6: "Issue 6. The BGA believes strongly that it is totally unacceptable that existing airspace users should be disadvantaged or burdened as UAV traffic develops in the future." It is confounded cheek for commercial interests to think they can fly UAVs wherever they like and we shall just have to suffer the inconvenience or worse to accommodate them. They would never dream of doing this on the roads, why in the sky? As to the example quoted in the BBC of an UAV "seeing" something the human eye would have missed, this can equally easily be done with sensors fitted to manned aircraft. The military use UAVs partly to avoid people being shot down in a war situation. W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). Remove "ic" to reply. "Tom Gardner" wrote in message 43.53... "W.J. \(Bill\) Dean \(U.K.\)." wrote in : Fitting a transponder would do hardly anything to reduce collision risk for most gliding in the UK. It will only help those who can and want to fly high in wave. I note that there are moves to have unmanned aircraft (UAVs) flying in UK airspace, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5198364.stm The current rules and procedures presume that all aircraft contain functioning eyeballs and brains that can look out the window. If they don't then the rules and procedures have to be rethought. Anybody see a connection with mandatory transponders? |
#108
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Glider Crash - Minden?
"kirk.stant" wrote in message
oups.com... Plus, 20 seconds is an eternity when it comes to getting out of the way. I asked this question several times, and never saw a convincing answer: exactly how do you use even the 20 seconds if you have them to avoid something coming at you at 300 (or, it was suggested, possibly much more) knots? If you start in a thermalling glider at minimum sink speed, you can't seem to run fast enough far enough given the rate of closure -- and the lack of time to estimate relative motion precisely enough. We don't have targeting radars in most of the gliders (not sure about Space Shuttle though). -- Yuliy |
#109
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Mode S Transponders....
W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.). wrote:
Yes, we all see the connection. How are they planning to avoid hang and paragliders? By mandating mode-S + ADS-B transponders for them too. There is some exemption clause for paragliders until the technology catches up. Probably until some avionics marketeer says so. I'm really looking forward to carrying a 600W microwave transmitter and associated battery. :-( Iwo |
#110
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Glider Crash - Minden?
Yuliy Gerchikov wrote:
"kirk.stant" wrote in message oups.com... Plus, 20 seconds is an eternity when it comes to getting out of the way. I asked this question several times, and never saw a convincing answer: exactly how do you use even the 20 seconds if you have them to avoid something coming at you at 300 (or, it was suggested, possibly much more) knots? Stop turning and stick the nose down steeply at the same time. That's about the quickest way to exit a given volume of air that I can think of if you're starting from a low airspeed. I'll be interested to hear of anything that would be faster and/or of something what would work if you're too low to dive away from the threat. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
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