Implications of.....keeping the speed up

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

Secondly, is there some atc requirement that if your destination is
the primary airport in a class B, then atc is required to keep you in
class B, and not vector you below?

That is policy to the extent it can be done without creating some other
traffic problem. But, there is no "rule."


Althought ATC can authorized it, there is a rule.
91.131
(2) Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person operating a large
turbine engine-powered airplane to or from a primary airport for which
a Class B airspace area is designated must operate at or above the
designated floors of the Class B airspace area while within the lateral
limits of that area.

Why do I get the feeling that none of you guys have ever flown anything
that does 250 knots?

-Robert, CFII

And, doesn't it say "unless otherwise authorized by ATC?" The pilot of
a large turbine-powered airplane cannot drop below the floor unless ATC
sends them there.

I don't know where you get your feeling. I suspect I have a lot more
air carrier large jet time that you do, and let me assure you no one in
the airline business refers to a Class B (TCA for many years) chart
since no airline pilot in his/her right mind ever cancels arriving at a
Class B airport.

ATC takes aircraft out the sides of Class B, and sometime returns them
below the floor of an outer area.

I did my fair share of ferrying aircraft from KONT to LAX and the
clearance was always at 4,000, handed off to LAX Approach Control
(pre-SoCal) days well below the floor of Class B. On that one most of
us were smart enough to stay at 200 knots; if not assigned something
less before the handoff.

Sam Spade wrote:
And, doesn't it say "unless otherwise authorized by ATC?" The pilot of
a large turbine-powered airplane cannot drop below the floor unless ATC
sends them there.

Your browser appears to be truncating previous posts so I'll repost the
statement I made in the posting you are referring to...

"Althought ATC can authorized it, there is a rule."

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

And, doesn't it say "unless otherwise authorized by ATC?" The pilot of
a large turbine-powered airplane cannot drop below the floor unless ATC
sends them there.


Your browser appears to be truncating previous posts so I'll repost the
statement I made in the posting you are referring to...

"Althought ATC can authorized it, there is a rule."

-Robert


But, that is not a rule that requires ATC to keep you in Class B. It is
just the opposite.

The OP wanted to know whether ATC would assure containment within Class
B. It was my choice of words to say there is no rule that requires to
to that, but it is FAA policy to the extent practical.

The regulation you cited is their authority to deviate from that policy.

Mxsmanic writes:

G. Sylvester writes:

First off, I'm a (very) light a/c IFR pilot. But having listened to
Channel 9 on UA for 135000 miles this past year ...

Is that like spending hundreds of hours with a simulator?

No, it takes hundreds of hours flying an actual plane to get to be an IFR
pilot. Having simulator experience helps a person understand the
environment, but it's not the same as having actually had a scary learning
experience in real life. Guaranteed that THOSE are the lessons you learn
from.

-Jack

Jack Cunniff wrote:

No, it takes hundreds of hours flying an actual plane to get to be an IFR
pilot. Having simulator experience helps a person understand the
environment, but it's not the same as having actually had a scary learning
experience in real life. Guaranteed that THOSE are the lessons you learn
from.

-Jack

Where did you get that idea?

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:51:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:

Jack Cunniff wrote:

No, it takes hundreds of hours flying an actual plane to get to be an IFR
pilot. Having simulator experience helps a person understand the
environment, but it's not the same as having actually had a scary learning
experience in real life. Guaranteed that THOSE are the lessons you learn
from.

-Jack

Where did you get that idea?

Sounds like the voice of experience to me:-))
Been there and done that.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Roger wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 08:51:03 -0800, Sam Spade
wrote:


Jack Cunniff wrote:

No, it takes hundreds of hours flying an actual plane to get to be an IFR
pilot. Having simulator experience helps a person understand the
environment, but it's not the same as having actually had a scary learning
experience in real life. Guaranteed that THOSE are the lessons you learn
from.

-Jack

Where did you get that idea?


Sounds like the voice of experience to me:-))
Been there and done that.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

What is the regulation that requires "hundreds of hours flying" to
obtain an instrument rating?

What is the regulation that requires "hundreds of hours flying" to obtain
an instrument rating?

at least 250 hours
Federal Air Regulation 61.129 a (single engine) and b (multi engine)
http://tinyurl.com/yk44ov
or, in its long form
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text.... 1.1.2.6.1.2

Ed Mulroy wrote:
What is the regulation that requires "hundreds of hours flying" to obtain
an instrument rating?


at least 250 hours
Federal Air Regulation 61.129 a (single engine) and b (multi engine)
http://tinyurl.com/yk44ov
or, in its long form
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text.... 1.1.2.6.1.2



That is the section for a commercial certificate. The instrument rating
requirements are in 61.65. So where is the requirement for "hundreds of
flying hours" to obtain an instrument rating?

Matt

On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 21:25:46 -0500, "Ed Mulroy"
wrote:

What is the regulation that requires "hundreds of hours flying" to obtain
an instrument rating?

at least 250 hours
Federal Air Regulation 61.129 a (single engine) and b (multi engine)
http://tinyurl.com/yk44ov
or, in its long form
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text.... 1.1.2.6.1.2


You seem to be confusing the Instrument requirement with the Commercial
requirement. The IR does not need the 250 hours required for the Commercial
(at least in the U.S.)

You might want to go back and read the proper section. :-)
-Jay-