Wing Tape - Does Thickness Affect Performance?

On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:21:40 -0700, Shawn
wrote:



You are not the only one who notices these things. :-)

They should also study the psychology of anonymous posters.
:-)

it is not always ominous you know. a nom de plume allows one to
separate out the personal views from the sometimes different public
posture. (think of someone holding public office who can and will
influence direction but must maintain the current percieved position
to keep up trust in an organisations activities)

now we are drifting :-)

Stealth Pilot

At 12:18 27 January 2007, Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:21:40 -0700, Shawn
wrote:

it is not always ominous you know. a nom de plume allows
one to
separate out the personal views from the sometimes
different public
posture. (think of someone holding public office who
can and will
influence direction but must maintain the current percieved
position
to keep up trust in an organisations activities)

now we are drifting :-)

Stealth Pilot


Dear Stealth Pilot,

I consider the above to be ominous!

Sincerely,

Gnome de Pluehm

Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:21:40 -0700, Shawn
wrote:


You are not the only one who notices these things. :-)
They should also study the psychology of anonymous posters.
:-)

it is not always ominous you know. a nom de plume allows one to
separate out the personal views from the sometimes different public
posture. (think of someone holding public office who can and will
influence direction but must maintain the current percieved position
to keep up trust in an organisations activities)

Interesting...and how does this make you feel? ;-)

now we are drifting :-)

It's snowing again in Colorado. I haven't flown in RL since the
beginning of December and my wife kicked me off her computer and Condor
(the only Windozable computer in the house). So yeah, drifting a bit.


Shawn

jcarlyle wrote:
...Fifteen years ago I worked outside for 6 weeks in the
Australian outback, where it got to 50C during the day. I drank 2
gallons or more of water during the 10 hour work day, but never
urinated except in the morning and after the evening meal. I never had
any mental acuity problems (I was doing math, interpreting data and
programming computers) and had no physical problems (cramps, lethargy)
at all during the entire time. Perhaps it's because I sweat like
crazy - during that job my clothes were always saturated with water.
But certainly no one else with me acted the same!

John, I think you've got to the nub of the matter and it's not occurred
to me before. I also sweat profusely and I believe you're correct to
connect that with low urine production rates.

An army doctor many years ago commented on my "hyperhidrosis" (IIRC) and
I've generally found it to be a problem but maybe it has its upside.
Perhaps a medically qualified person would care to comment but it would
seem (perhaps simplistically) that if much of our water intake is being
lost in sweat, there will be less urine produced without changing our
body's hydration level.

Perhaps we won't reach the scene of the accident with a full bladder
after all! The comments about ruptured bladders didn't seem relevant to
me when I read them because - like you - I don't sit there with a
distended bladder exerting superhuman willpower. I simply seem to
produce low volumes of urine. Maybe we just lose the water in other ways?

In any case, I'm rather pleased to think that what has been a problem
may also have its upside.

Cheers,
GC


Thanks again to all who responded to my questions.

-John

"Graeme Cant" gcantinter@tnodedotnet wrote in message
...
jcarlyle wrote:
...Fifteen years ago I worked outside for 6 weeks in the
Australian outback,
John, I think you've got to the nub of the matter
lost in sweat, there will be less urine produced without changing our
body's hydration level.

Perhaps we won't reach the scene of the accident with a full bladder after
all! The comments about ruptured bladders didn't seem relevant to me when
I read them because - like you - I don't sit there with a distended
bladder exerting superhuman willpower. I simply seem to produce low
volumes of urine. Maybe we just lose the water in other ways?

In any case, I'm rather pleased to think that what has been a problem may
also have its upside.

Cheers,
GC
-John


Guys:
Before you go rejoicing in the benefits of low urine output, I sugest you
learn some basic renal physiology.
Try Google search or WebMD-search on 'renal physiology' and tell us what you
find. Might also try the "USAF Flight Surgeon's Handbook"---a Google search
will get you there.

Hartley Falbaum

See Thirst and the Drinking Pilot by Dan Johnson
http://amygdala.danlj.org/~danlj/Soa...oaringMag.html

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).
Remove "ic" to reply.
"jcarlyle" wrote in message
oups.com...
It appears that Google ate my original post - apologies in advance if
it suddenly reappears!

Graeme, sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not intending to change my
flying lifestyle; I'm simply going to get prepared for an in-flight
urination session using one of two potential on-board systems.
Hopefully I'll not need such a system, like you, but at least I'll
have it.

Why take action on the basis of responses in this thread? First, it's
easy. Second, I've never consciously evaluated at the end of a flight
either my urine output/color or my mental/physiological state - I may
be overlooking something in the residual euphoria of flying that could
hurt me. Third, the responders have not just given offhand comments,
plus they represent a lot of experience and at least one clearly has
had medical training. Fourth, being a low time soaring pilot, I'd
much rather learn from other's experience than learn it myself the
hard way.

Eric, there are a couple of physicians in my soaring club, and I'll
have a word with them when I see them. As you say, everyone is
different. Fifteen years ago I worked outside for 6 weeks in the
Australian outback, where it got to 50C during the day. I drank 2
gallons or more of water during the 10 hour work day, but never
urinated except in the morning and after the evening meal. I never had
any mental acuity problems (I was doing math, interpreting data and
programming computers) and had no physical problems (cramps, lethargy)
at all during the entire time. Perhaps it's because I sweat like
crazy - during that job my clothes were always saturated with water.
But certainly no one else with me acted the same!

Thanks again to all who responded to my questions.

-John

Eric Greenwell wrote:
ContestID67 wrote:
Someone please explain to me the inner workings and psychology of
network news such that it always seems to take a posting on a simple
topic (like gap tape) and then quickly morphs it into some quite far
afield...usually involving a male body part. Strange indeed.

It's because almost no one thinks to start a new thread or even change
the subject line, but just clicks Reply. "Grasshopper, look into you own
soul for why you did neither, and you will find the explanation."

And as everyone who had done a search on the newsgroup knows, you better
tell the search engine to look in the body also, and not just the subject!


Okay, this should get us back on track...I have solved the the need for
a pee system in my glider by using plenty of tape and I can report, the
thicker the better.

Paul
ZZ

HL Falbaum wrote:

Guys:
Before you go rejoicing in the benefits of low urine output, I sugest you
learn some basic renal physiology.

No, Hartley. Every time I answer one of your fire and brimstone
warnings, you do a shifty shift to another topic. Let's stick to the
subject. Why is it especially dangerous to have an averagely full
bladder on a normal gliding flight?

Try Google search or WebMD-search on 'renal physiology' and tell us what you
find. Might also try the "USAF Flight Surgeon's Handbook"---a Google search
will get you there.

Hartley, you can stick your Google search where the sun don't shine. I
just like gliding and I neither want to be, nor need to be, a qualified
urologist to do that.

I'm NOT sick and numerous "flight surgeons" as you quaintly call them
will testify to that over an aviation career spanning 50 years last
month. Incidentally, the doctor who remarked over my excess sweating
was one of the first of these and a condition that hasn't been
life-threatening over that period is unlikely to warrant spending much
time on at this stage. My arthritis is much more a pain in the ...knee
than my urinary system.

You may not have noticed but I'm firmly against medicalising perfectly
normal physiology and I've got many years experience of MDs to back up
that position. Neither John nor I are sick and we are functioning
perfectly well. We appear to be off the centre of the bell curve but
nowhere near the end. I have experienced dehydration at both first and
second hand and I DON'T fly dehydrated. I just don't pee a lot. I
suspect the same is true of John Carlyle - who appears to have learned
about dehydration in roughly the same place as I did and I can tell you
it's a fast teacher. I suspect we both have more real life experience
of it than you.

Now. Isn't it possible that we have perfectly adequate physiology and
don't need to take any more than normal precautions against dehydration?

Just Yes or No will do.

Cheers,
GC

Hartley, your point that renal physiology is extensively researched is
well taken. Clearly it isn't my field, and therefore the links, to me,
were incomprehensible - I couldn't learn a thing from them to help me
understand my situation. You seem well versed in the area; if you
would be so kind as to offer a possible explanation as to the
anomalous bodily response that Graeme and I exhibit I'm eager to be
educated.

Bill Dean's link was very informative regarding thirst and
dehydration. Dr. Dan Johnson has written another paper that is
pertinent to this discussion: http://amygdala.danlj.org/~danlj/
Soaring/Clues/index.html In chapter 5 you'll see that Dan's
recommended in-flight urinary system is Depends. Diapers have a very
high "ick" factor for me, but there's no denying their installation
ease and utter simplicity of use. I guess that since Depends weren't
recommended before in this discussion, the "ick" factor predominates
with other pilots.

-John

"Graeme Cant" gcantinter@tnodedotnet wrote in message
...

Why is it especially dangerous to have an averagely full
bladder on a normal gliding flight?

Assuming a half-full bladder, it is not dangerous. Problem is a bladder does
not signal "fullness" like a gas tank. The "signal" comes and goes.

Hartley, you can stick your Google search where the sun don't shine. I
just like gliding and I neither want to be, nor need to be, a qualified
urologist to do that.

OK.

We appear to be off the centre of the bell curve but
nowhere near the end.

Maybe---do you really know that you are not near the end? Next time you fly
on a nice hot day, measure your urine output and check the color. If you
can, check the specific gravity---(range 1.000 to 1.030 on the instrument
will be sufficient). If you are above 200 cc and below 1.015 for a 6 hr
flight then you're OK


I suspect we both have more real life experience of it than you.+

Maybe---

Now. Isn't it possible that we have perfectly adequate physiology and
don't need to take any more than normal precautions against dehydration?

Just Yes or No will do.

Simple answer--Yes
but incomplete. Hydration is one parameter. Renal flow is another.

Cheers,
GC

And cheers to you
Hartley Falbaum